Di awal bulan ini kita melihat – atau lebih tepatnya, sekali lagi diingatkan – bahwa Islam mengijinkan pedofilia dengan kedok “pernikahan”: Ulama terkenal Saudi Arabia, Dr. Salih bin Fawzan, mengusulkan sebuah fatwa yang menegaskan bahwa, tak ada usia minimum bagi para gadis untuk menikah,”bahkan meskipun mereka itu masih bayi,” dan bahwa satu-satunya kriteria, apakah mereka boleh menikah atau tidak adalah, “Apakah mereka sudah siap untuk dibaringkan dibawah pria yang menjadi suaminya, dan sanggup menanggung beban tubuh suaminya itu.”
Sementara praktek ini berbicara untuk dirinya sendiri, adalah hal yang menarik saat menyaksikan betapa banyak orang-orang Muslim yang membenarkan atau merasionalkan fatwa itu – atau bahkan menganggapnya sebagai sebuah sumber kebanggaan.
Sebagai contoh, perhatikan bagaimana ulama Muslim ini mendiskusikan pernikahan Muhammad dengan seorang anak kecil yaitu Aisyah, ketika Aisyah masih berusia 9 tahun. Bukannya merasa malu, ulama ini justru menggunakan kisah ini untuk membanggakan ‘kesabaran’ dan ‘kemurahan’ nabi. Terjemahan yang relevan adalah sbb:
Kisah bagaimana nabi menikahi Aisyah memperlihatkan pada kita aspek-aspek seperti, bagaimana nabi memperlakukan Aisyah, dan lebih penting lagi adalah aspek mengenai relasi antara suami dan isteri, untuk memperlihatkan bagaimana seseorang seharusnya memperlakukan isterinya, sama seperti yang dilakukan nabi kepada Aisyah.
Kita tahu bahwa ibunya Aisyah, menurunkan Aisyah yang tengah main ayunan, membawanya masuk ke dalam rumah, kemudian mendandani rambutnya dan mempersiapkannya untuk nabi, sehingga nabi bisa memasukinya (berhubungan seks dengannya) – dan semuanya itu ia lakukan pada hari yang sama.
Kisah yang disampaikan sendiri oleh Aisyah dalam Sahih Bukhari memberikan informasi pada kita, bagaimana ia membicarakan mengenai ibunya yang dengan tergesa-gesa mempersiapkannya dan kemudian ‘menyerahkannya’ kepada Muhammad, dan bagaimana Aisyah berkata,”tak ada yang lebih mengejutkanku daripada kedatangan Rasul Allah yang menemuiku sore itu.”
Ulama itu meneruskan:
Jadi bisa anda lihat, Aisyah sedang bermain-main dengan teman-temannya meskipun hari itu adalah hari yang sama dimana ia akan dibawa kepada nabi – dan setelah itu mereka bisa mempersiapkannya untuk nabi, sehingga nabi bisa berhubungan seks dengannya.
Sekarang, apa yang dapat kita lihat saat nabi menikahi Aisyah? Apakah ia pergi menemui Aisyah dan berkata “Nah ini dia, engkau telah menikah, sekarang engkau adalah seorang yang sudah besar, seharusnya engkau bersikap sebagai seorang wanita dewasa, engkau perlu melakukan ini dan itu; engkau harus melupakan boneka-bonekamu dan teman-teman seusiamu; engkau sekarang adalah seorang isteri dari seorang pria, engkau harus memperhatikan kebutuhanku, dan itulah kewajibanmu?
Tidak! (kata ulama itu). Nabi mengijinkannya untuk terus bermain dengan bonekanya – bahkan, nabi kadang-kadang memberinya sesuatu untuk bisa ia mainkan [hadis ini mempunyai detail-detail yang lebih banyak, termasuk bagaimana teman-teman Aisyah yang masih kecil akan “bersembunyi” ketika nabi mengunjunginya, hingga akhirnya nabi memanggil mereka untuk keluar dari tempat persembunyian.]
Perlu dicatat bahwa ulama ini mengutip hadis di atas dengan perasaan takjub – seolah-oleh hendak mengatakan,”Lihat, betapa toleran dan terbukanya pemikiran nabi kita!”
Pada kenyataannya, seluruh poin yang hendak disampaikan oleh ulama ini adalah, untuk memperlihatkan bahwa Islam, berdasarkan contoh yang diberikan oleh Muhammad, mengharapkan supaya suami-suami yang lebih tua bersikap sabar terhadap isteri-isteri mereka yang masih muda: “Suami yang lebih tua seharusnya tidak menuntut isterinya yang masih muda untuk berada pada tingkat kedewasaan yang sama dengan dirinya; sebaliknya, si suami seharusnya menurunkan levelnya, sebab ia sanggup melakukannya sementara isterinya itu tidak sanggup menaikkan levelnya.”
Sebagai “pria sejati” seolah-olah kedengarannya benar demikian, ini adalah contoh lain bagaimana para sarjana Muslim melihat gaya hidup Muhammad: sebab mereka tidak bisa mengecam atau mengabaikan praktek yang ia lakukan, sebaliknya yang dapat mereka lakukan adalah berusaha merasionalkan atau membenarkan apa yang diperbuat oleh nabi mereka – untuk menemukan hal yang baik dari setiap situasi yang melibatkan nabi mereka, tanpa menyadari setiap implikasi jelek dari perilaku nabinya itu.
Jadi, di sini kita menemukan seorang ulama Muslim yang berusaha keras untuk menemukan sebuah aspek positif dari perilaku pedofilia Muhammad – bahwa ia itu seorang yang sabar dan bersikap toleran pada isterinya yang masih dibawah umur itu – sementara pada saat yang sama, ulama Muslim ini mengabaikan inti dari apa yang diperbuat oleh Muhammad: bahwa kisah ini pada awalnya sesungguhnya dibangun di sekitar hasrat untuk menikmati hubungan seks dengan seorang anak yang masih kecil.
Oleh: Raymond Ibrahim Jihad Watch 29 July 2011
August 11, 2011 at 1:57 am
Saadiq Mohammad:
I recently read an article by Amaar Khan titled ‘A complete guide to pedophilia in Islam’. In his argument he quotes Surah 33:49 and Surah 65:4 as proof that pedophilia is prescribed and promoted in the Quran. He then uses hadith, tafsirs and fatwas to back up his points. He tells us to pay close attention to the section in 65:4 that states ‘those who have not menstruated yet’ on page 1 of his article. He says, regarding this verse, and I quote ‘because it is going to be most important in this article.’
Amar Khan:
Evidence from Quran that pedophilia is not prohibited but rather promoted.
In cases of divorces, where the husband had sex with the wife, the Quran specifies the Iddah, a waiting period of three months, in verse 65:4:
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.
Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran.
Clearly, the Quran divides woman in two types:
1. Women who have reached menopause, and
2. Women who do not have menses yet.
The stipulated Iddah period is three months. The word used here is “NISA”, the same word is used in many verses regarding the prepubescent girls. E.g.
And [remember the time] when we saved you from Pharaoh’s people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing [only] your women – which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer;
(Waith najjaynakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi yuthabbihoona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun) [Quran. 2:49]
Then tafsirs of all commentators on verse 65:4 clearly prove the fact that according to Quran the “ Iddah of prepubescent girls is three months.”
Now the main point here is that according to the Quran, any woman who got divorced before her first menstruation will have three months of “iddah”. So clearly it is allowable to marry a girl who have not yet menstruated. There is no lower limit mentioned in the Quran. So, it is allowed to marry any girl who has not yet have her first menses. She even can be less then one year old.
Saadiq Mohammad:
So let us look at this to see if the Qur’an really allows pedophilia.
J. Geoff Malta, MA, EdM, NCC, an Adolescent Therapist says on his website:
( http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml ) that there are 5 stages of puberty in women. If you visit this site he says that menstruation occurs during stage 3 which is between the ages of 9 to 15 years of age. He says that only SOME girls get their first period during this time, meaning a small number of girls. So if we look to the next stage as being the one in which most girls menstruate (stage 4) the age is 10 to 16.
Now let us look to at the age of sexual consent, under the law in some NON MUSLIM COUNTRIES. If you visit: ( http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm ) you will see a list of countries and their legal age limit for consent to sex. For the sake of those who have little time, I will list some examples from this website.
Australia the age is 16
Canada the age is 16
Israel the age is 14
UK the age is 16
In some US states, like Indiana and Iowa, the age is as low as 14, but the national average is 16.
Amaar Khan:
First of all I will have to check the data given to me.
According to http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml
Menarch (the beginning of menstruation) usually happens in “Stage 4″ of puberty, but can happen late in Stage 3 as well. While there are no real “signs” of an impending first period, there are signs that may let you know when it is likely to happen.
Five Stages of Puberty – Girls
1 Age Range: Usually 8-11
In Stage 1 there are no outside signs of development, but a girl’s ovaries are enlarging and hormone production is beginning.
2 Age Range: Usually 8-14. Average: 11-12
The first sign is typically the beginning of breast growth, including “breast buds.” A girl may also grow considerable height and weight. The first signs of pubic hair start out fine and straight, rather than curly.
3 Age Range: Usually 9-15. Average: 12-13
Breast growth continues, and pubic hair coarsens and becomes darker, but there still isn’t a lot of it. Your body is still growing, and your vagina is enlarging and may begin to produce a clear or whitish discharge, which is a normal self-cleansing process. Some girls get their first menstrual periods late in this stage.
4 Age Range: Usually 10-16. Average: 13-14
Pubic hair growth takes on the triangular shape of adulthood, but doesn’t quite cover the entire area. Underarm hair is likely to appear in this stage, as is menarche. Ovulation (release of egg cells) begins in some girls, but typically not in a regular monthly routine until Stage 5.
5 Age Range: Usually 12-19. Average: 15
This is the final stage of development, when a girl is physically an adult. Breast and pubic hair growth are complete, and your full height is usually attained by this point. Menstrual periods are well established, and ovulation occurs monthly.
So Menarch can happen usually at 9-16 years of age, and average age here is 12-14 years.
But the actual problem with the Quran is that it does not impose any lower limit, which I have explained above.
Let us make a thorough examination of minimum age of marriage in country wise. According to http://www.muslim-marriage-guide.com/marriage-age.html, which is an Islamic site and wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age :
Male 22, Female 20 China (PRC),
Both 21 Puerto Rico, Philippines, Singapore,
Male 21, Female 18 Algeria, Bangladesh, India,
Male 21, Female 17 Mississippi,
Male 21, Female 16 Hong Kong, SAR of China,
Both 20 Senegal, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand,
Male 20, Female 17 Tunisia
Male 20, Female 15 Thailand
Male 19, Female 17 Nebraska
Both 18 Ethiopia, Morocco, Chile, Peru, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming, Venezuela, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Sri Lanka, Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Netherland, Norway, Romania, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine
Male 18, Female 17 Indiana, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Uzbekistan, Northern Ireland,
Male 18, Female 16 Pakistan, Egypt, South Africa, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Mexico, Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Ohio, Indonesia, Poland,Portugal, England and Wales, Jersey, Australia, New Zealand,
Male 18, Female 15 Tanzania, Georgia, Hawai, Missouri,
Male 18, Female 14 Afghanistan,
Male 17, Female 14 Madgascar,
Both 16 Kenya, Maldives, Scotland,
Puberty Sudan, Yemen
Male 16, Female 16 Jordan
Male 16, Female 14 Paraguay
Male 15, Female 13 Iran
From the above chart, the minimum age limit in Afghanistan is 14 years, and in Iran, it is 13 years. Both are Islamic countries, and they follow the Sunnah. But, still the age of Menarch varies from 10-16.
Saadiq Muhammad:
What can we learn from this? That NORMAL (I stress this word for a reason that I will mention later) age that most women menstruate is between the ages of 10 – 16 and that NON MUSLIM COUNTRIES allow consent to sex at about the time of a woman’s first menstruation. So, If a woman living in any of the examples I listed above begins menstruation at or around the age of 16 and a man has sexual contact with her, he can NOT be labeled a pedophile since the law allows sexual contact with women this young. By now, someone who is unbiased can see how Amaar Khan’s argument gradually implodes.
Amaar Khan
Yes, you are right that any one having sex with a girl of age 16 should not be labeled as pedophile, but the problem is that the Quran allows a male to marry a girl before she gets menses. She can even be of one year old. No lower limit is provided.
So the problem is with the Quran, and definitely not with the laws of different countries. These countries have imposed a lower limit for marriage with an average age limit of 18 years. But the author of the Quran does not care to impose any limit. Perhaps, the author wanted to rationalize his own example of marrying a girl before her Menarch.
August 11, 2011 at 1:58 am
Saadiq Mohammad
Most people living in Western nations will say ‘But women are menstruating at a much earlier age nowadays’. This fact is true in many 1st world nations, but is this a natural occurrence? The reasons for this early development can be attributed to the high fat content in a woman’s body. Poor eating habits and factors like obesity have been scientifically linked to girls having menstruations at an earlier than normal age. Sandra Steingraber wrote an article about this titled ‘Goodbye Girls’:
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=121078392475499700 .
In this article she states the following
‘If historical statistics are any guide, the average girl in northern Europe in the 1830s entered puberty — defined by menarche, or the onset of menstruation — at approximately 17 years of age. Today, chances are that her American counterpart will have her first period at about 12 and a half’
History is showing us that the further back you go, the higher the age a woman becomes during her first menstruation. This is due in large part to the dietary habits of people who lived thousands of years ago, compared to those living today. Although we have no historical records indicating the average age of menstruation of women living in Arabia, during the 6th and 7th century, we can easily assume, from the article I listed above, that it was at least at age 17, if not a bit higher.
So, at the time of the revelation of 65:4 the age of menstruation in women was probably about 17 years of age (at least). So at the time of the revelation a pre-pubescent woman could have been between the ages of 14 – 16 years old (at least), which is within the age limit of legal sexual contact with a woman in the countries I listed above.
Amaar Khan
It is true that the age of Menarch is decreasing, but I have explained above that the Quran does not impose any lower limit on the age of marriage. It can be less than one year old.
If we assume that the lower limit is the initial time of Menarch, verse 65:4 is still getting in a fatal trouble; namely, it allows a girl to be married before her Menarch. If the age for Menarch is decreasing, then this means that you can marry an even younger girl.
For example, if the age of first menses was 17 in 622 AD then it was allowed to marry a girl at 17. If the age of first menses is 12, it is allowed to marry a girl at 12 according to Islam. This means that the Quranic “alleged” lower limit is decreasing with the passage of time.
At the end of this article I will explain when did Ayesha really got her Menarch.
Saadiq Muhammad
So let’s look at the implications of this, as it pertains to ISLAM…
Being a Muslim means obeying the laws of the country you live in as long as they do NOT contradict or come into direct violation of Allah’s commandments in the Quran or clear cut Islamic Rulings. So in the case of marrying a younger woman; is this a part of Allah’s commandments or Islamic rulings? Is it an obligation put on ALL Muslim men?
Is it Wajib or Fard (strict obligation or compulsive act)? The answer is NO! If a Muslim man never marries a younger woman he is NO less a Muslim than the man who chooses to do so LEGALY. A Muslim man who denies himself this kind of marriage is no closer or further from entering heaven than a Muslim man who marries a young woman.
Amaar Khan has to demonstrate or prove that this act of marriage to a younger woman is a strict, compulsory obligation for all Muslim men, and I believe he can NOT because such information is non-existent and is NO part of Islam and it’s teachings.
Amaar Khan
I have proven that the Quran allows and promotes pedophilia, Mohammed have made an example of it. His companions have practiced it, and all the mainstream Ulemas are in favor of it, and it is still proudly practiced in the Islamic world.
If we left the issue of Ayesha, there still are other narrations regarding babies which Mohammed wanted to marry. Let us see:
Muhammad wanted to marry a crawling baby-girl. Let us read what Ibn Ishaq, the most authentic biographer of Muhammad, wrote about this.
(Suhayli, ii.79: In the Riwaya of Yunus I. I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummu’l–Fadl) when she was a baby crawling before him and said, ‘If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her.’ But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. ‘Abdu’l-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba… (ibn Ishaq, 2001, p. 311).
Similarly there is another narration:
Muhammad saw Um Habiba the daughter of Abbas while she was fatim (age of nursing) and he said, “If she grows up while I am still alive, I will marry her.” (Musnad Ahmad, Number 25636)
See, how Mohammed wants to get babies even at the deathbed.
Similarly, we know that Mohammed used “transparent skins” for hoories of jannat. And we know that only babies have transparent skins.
It is a proven fact that Mohammed was a pedophile. He wanted to have sex with Ayesha because he saw her in dreams.
(Bukhari 62:015).
Narated By ‘Aisha : Allah’s Apostle said (to me), “You have been shown to me twice in (my) dreams. A man was carrying you in a silken cloth and said to me, ‘This is your wife.’ I uncovered it; and behold, it was you. I said to myself, ‘If this dream is from Allah, He will cause it to come true.’”
We know today that dreams come when we have any desire or wish in any part of our mind. So Mohammed surely did have thoughts about Ayesha in his life before his marriage.
Being a Muslim, it is first and final obligation to do what the prophet have done. To follow his Sunnah is a duty. So it is a duty of every Muslims to follow the Sunnah of the prophet and marry a 9 year old girl.
Saadiq Muhammad
As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.
Amaar Khan
I have explained the authenticity of these narrations. And there is only one reason for repeated narrations regarding pedophilia – it is an accepted thing in Islam. Muslims teach their young girls to respect their husbands by quoting that Ayesha was only nine years when married, but she still respected the prophet very much. I have explained that pedophilia is not only consistent with Ayesha, it is being proved by other sources also. So there is no need for Muslims to hide the age of Ayesha by saying that narrations are wrong. If these narrations are wrong then all the narrations are wrong. If we accept what you say, then the whole Islamic literature is crap. This is a must conclusion.
Saadiq Muhammad
Maulana Muhammad Ali wrote an English booklet titled ‘Prophet of Islam’ and in it he states the following:
“A great misconception prevails as to the age at which Aisha was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa‘d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr [father of Aisha] was approached on behalf of the Holy Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair, and that he would have to settle the matter first with him. This shows that Aisha must have been approaching majority at the time. Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than Aisha. This shows that Aisha must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be. This is further borne out by the fact that Aisha herself is reported to have stated that when the chapter [of the Holy Quran] entitled The Moon, the fifty-fourth chapter, was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that Aisha could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal. And there is one report in the Tabaqat that Aisha was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of Aisha took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal, while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijra in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation. Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.”
This scholar puts the age of consummation of Aisha at 14 or 15 years old which is in accordance to today’s laws in some 1st world nations (USA and Israel) as to the age of a woman who can be LEGALLY engaged in sexual intercourse with a man.
To facilitate understanding dates of these events, please note that it was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha. The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.
Amaar Khan
Who is Mohammed Ali? This is the first time, I heard of him. Is he a prophet , a companion of the prophet or a hadith writer?
How can he say so? Any reference from the Quran , the hadith etc.?
Saadiq Muhammad
Later research by people like Abu Tahir Irfani in his book titled ‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’ states that Aisha was 14 or 15 years old at the time of her marriage and 19 years old at the time of her comsumation. He, like others point out the following facts:
1.The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:
“In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” [5]
Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.
2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:
“She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years
This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.
3. The same statement is made by the famous classical commentator of the Holy Quran, Ibn Kathir, in his book Al-bidayya wal-nihaya:
“Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.”
Apart from these three evidences, which are presented in the Urdu pamphlet referred to above, we also note that the birth of Aisha being a little before the Call is consistent with the opening words of a statement by her which is recorded four times in Bukhari. Those words are as follows:
“Ever since I can remember (or understand things) my parents were following the religion of Islam.”
This is tantamount to saying that she was born sometime before her parents accepted Islam but she can only remember them practicing Islam. No doubt she and her parents knew well whether she was born before or after they accepted Islam, as their acceptance of Islam was such a landmark event in their life which took place just after the Holy Prophet received his mission from God. If she had been born after they accepted Islam it would make no sense for her to say that she always remembered them as following Islam. Only if she was born before they accepted Islam, would it make sense for her to say that she can only remember them being Muslims, as she was too young to remember things before their conversion. This is consistent with her being born before the Call, and being perhaps four or five years old at the time of the Call, which was also almost the time when her parents accepted Islam.
Amaar Khan
When someone becomes that old, people don’t care too much about her exact age. It is very easy to say she was 100 years old when in fact she was only 90. The difference is not noticeable at the old age compared to younger folks, and it is questionable when 100 is a round figure. Assuming the Hadith is authentic, it could be an honest mistake. Since in those days people did not carry birth certificates, it is very much likely that the person who reported her age to be 100 did not know that she was 10 years older than Aisha and did not sit down to make the calculations and deductions. She was not an important person, and it did not occur to anyone that 1300 years later it would become the subject of a controversy. This could be a genuine mistake by the narrator of the Hadith.. Now let us examine the narrations and their authenticity:
In that article the number of ahadith given were:
Book Number of Narrations
Bukhari 6
Muslim 4
Abu Dawud 7
Nisai 1
Ibn Majah 2
Ibn Ishaq 1
Musnad Ahmad 1
Al-Tabari 5
Total 27
There are 27 narrations which are more than many other fundamental rituals of Islam. These narrations say directly that Ayesha was 9 years old. Suppose that all the provided narrations are “weak” then still there are a lot of other hadiths which shows that Ayesha was a young girl when she got married. For example:
‘A’ishah said: I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in.” [Sunan Abu Dawud 3:4913, p.1373]
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated ‘Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Narrated Aisha: “The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)”
Tabari IX:131 “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.
Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.
Suppose Ayesha was 14 or 15 years old then isn’t it quite ridiculous that Ayesha was playing with dolls being swung between two branches. She even was not so mature to clean her face because her nurse took her and wiped her face. She burst into laughter. Wow, what kind of bride was she? It is only possible that Ayesha was 9 years old.
She was actually almost 8 years and 9 months old because the narrations are according to lunar calendar. So if you deny 27 strong narrations then you must be a Quran only Muslim. If you are so, then the problem is solved because Quran only Muslim is not a Muslim in reality.
Furthermore, most of the narrations are from Ayesha herself. So there should be no be any ambiguity about her age because only the person herself knows very well what her actual age is.
Still if any one does not believe that Ayesha was 8 years and 9 months old, then he is no more a Muslim.
When did Ayesha get her first menses?
There is a narration in Bukhari regarding the Menarch of Ayesha.
Sahih Bukhari 1:6:293:
Narrated Al-Qasim:
‘Aisha said, “We set out with the sole intention of performing Hajj and when we reached Sarif, (a place six miles from Mecca) I got my menses. Allah’s Apostle came to me while I was weeping. He said ‘What is the matter with you? Have you got your menses?’ I replied, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is a thing which Allah has ordained for the daughters of Adam. So do what all the pilgrims do with the exception of the Taw-af (Circumambulation) round the Ka’ba.” ‘Aisha added, “Allah’s Apostle sacrificed cows on behalf of his wives.”
Sahih Bukhari 2:26:631
Narrated Al-Qasim bin Muhammad:
‘ Aisha said, “We set out with Allah’s Apostles in the months of Hajj, and (in) the nights of Hajj, and at the time and places of Hajj and in a state of Hajj. We dismounted at Sarif (a village six miles from Mecca). The Prophet then addressed his companions and said, “Anyone who has not got the Hadi and likes to do Umra instead of Hajj may do so (i.e. Hajj-al-Tamattu) and anyone who has got the Hadi should not finish the Ihram after performing ‘ Umra). (i.e. Hajj-al-Qiran). Aisha added, “The companions of the Prophet obeyed the above (order) and some of them (i.e. who did not have Hadi) finished their Ihram after Umra.” Allah’s Apostle and some of his companions were resourceful and had the Hadi with them, they could not perform Umra (alone) (but had to perform both Hajj and Umra with one Ihram). Aisha added, “Allah’s Apostle came to me and saw me weeping and said, “What makes you weep, O Hantah?” I replied, “I have heard your conversation with your companions and I cannot perform the Umra.” He asked, “What is wrong with you?’ I replied, ‘I do not offer the prayers (i.e. I have my menses).’ He said, ‘It will not harm you for you are one of the daughters of Adam, and Allah has written for you (this state) as He has written it for them. Keep on with your intentions for Hajj and Allah may reward you that.” Aisha further added, “Then we proceeded for Hajj till we reached Mina and I became clean from my menses.
(Note: The second hadith has been shortened by deleting the last part which has no relevance here at all.)
Mohammed married ayesha after Hijra (emigration to madina) about at the time of the year 622, and she was at the time of 8 years and 9 months old. She got her first menses while journey for hajj in 629 when she was about 16 years. So she got her menses in 4th stage of puberty. Still fifth stage was left even after the hajj.
Saadiq Muhammad
I have been waiting for Amaar khan to answer me for some time now. I have contacted Ali Sina himself, on his Facebook page and requested a debate with either himself or Amaar Khan. Thus far my invitation has not been answered. So, I am taking this opportunity to call out Amaar Khan and challenge him to a debate over this issue. I do hope that those who know and speak to Amaar Khan will relay this challenge to him and direct him to this article that I have written. I do understand that free time is an issue, so I am willing to accept any format, whether it be a wall to wall posting or an e-mail structured debate.
Amaar Khan, I am waiting! Will you answer this call or hide from it?
Amaar Khan
Dear brother, today at 8 pm (Pakistan standard time) I got an email from FFI editor about your rebuttal. And I have completed counter rebuttal at 10 pm, in spite of the fact that my midterm examinations have been started. I hope all of your arguments have been answered and I have added some extra data in this article which I left in my compiled article “A Complete Guide to Pedophilia in Islam”. What you have done is nothing new for me. Before leaving Islam, I also used these tactics to satisfy myself. But I know that man is very keen in nature. After reading this counter rebuttal surely there will arise some questions in your mind which will lead you to truth.
Regards,
Amaar khan,
Pakistan
August 11, 2011 at 1:58 am
After receiving a response from Amaar Khan, I was eager to write my counter rebuttal and have it published. Here is my counter rebuttal to Amaar Khan
The following is my counter rebuttal to what Amaar Khan has said. I post it here for readers to read and I will submit it for publication, so Amaar Khan can respond, if he wishes.
First, Mr. Khan states the following:
‘Now the main point here is that according to the Quran, any woman who got divorced before her first menstruation will have three months of “iddah”. So clearly it is allowable to marry a girl who have not yet menstruated. There is no lower limit mentioned in the Quran. So, it is allowed to marry any girl who has not yet have her first menses. She even can be less then one year old.’
Mr. Khan’s argument here, and in many other parts of his rebuttal is that a Muslim man can marry a young girl, as young as one year old, because the Quran does not set an age limit. To this I respond with the following Hadiths:
Malik related to me from Abdullah ibn al-Fadl from Nafi ibn Jubayr ibn Mutim from Abdullah ibn Abbas that the Messenger of Allah, SAAWS, said, “A woman who has been previously married is more entitled to her person than her guardian, and a virgin must be asked for her consent for herself, and her consent is her silence ” [Malik’s Muwatta, Book 28, Number 28.2.4]
The Prophet said, “A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! How can we know her permission?” He said, “Her silence (indicates her permission).” [Sahih Al-Bukhari 7.67]
As we can see, a virgin woman must be consulted and permission MUST be given by her. Now Mr. Khan, can consent be given by a one year old? Do they have the mental faculty to make such a decision? A one year old can’t even form words yet to form an opinion, let alone give permission for marriage. So we see from these hadith that a virgin, who is probably young and just about at that age of her first menstruation, must be old enough to give or refuse permission for marriage. There is no set age for this because everyone develops, mentally at different rates and there is no set age for one, with regards to mental capacity.
How is permission granted? Her silence, according to the hadith. I know that some uneducated people in here will say that a 1,2,3,4 or even 5 year old will be silent because they can’t form the words to properly express what is on their minds. The silence here means her agreement, not a literal silence. If she agrees to marriage, then she puts up no argument, and if she disagrees, she lets it be known to those who bring forth the proposal. So let’s make that clear so I can avoid these kinds of people.
Also, forced marriage is Haram, according to the following Hadith:Narrated Khansa bint Khidam Al Ansariya “…that her father gave her in marriage when she was a matron and she disliked that marriage. So she went to Allah’s Apostle and he declared that marriage invalid.” [Sahih Al-Bukhari 7.69].
So Mr.Khan, since a young woman has to give permission, this illustrates that one can NOT seek marriage from a woman who has yet to develop the mental capability and speech to agree or disagree with the marriage.
Secondly, you give us a list of countries and list their legal age of sexual consent. Then you say:
‘From the above chart, the minimum age limit in Afghanistan is 14 years, and in Iran, it is 13 years. Both are Islamic countries, and they follow the Sunnah. But, still the age of Menarch varies from 10-16.’
Well what about Indiana and Iowa in the USA and Israel, where I have stated the age is 14 years old? How come you have not addressed this? Also, you point out Afghanistan and Iran to prove a point. We should look at other Muslim countries as well. In your list is the following:
Algeria and Bangladesh the woman must be at least 18
Tunisia the woman must be at least 17
These ages are older than the ages set forth in:
USA where the average is 16
Canada where the woman must be 16
UK where the woman must be 16
Other Muslim countries, in your list, like Egypt have the same age, being at least 16.
Mr. Khan you can’t pick and choose countries to suit your goals. Why don’t you emphasize these other countries? Could it be that if you did, people would see that not ALL Muslim countries allow such young age for marriage?
Let’s examine this more closely though. You have lied about the age of consent in Afghanistan. The stipulations for marriage there is that the man and woman must be married and be at least 18 years old. Although younger marriages take place in Afghanistan, etc, these marriages are ILLEGAL. The USA suffers from the same thing. Take Jeffs, the polygamous leader in Utah for example or David Koresh, they had relations with women under the legal age limit prescribed in the law. This is not an Islamic phenomena, it’s a worldwide issue. Every country battles with these types of illegal marriages. Also let’s look at the age of sexual consent in some NON MUSLIM countries:
1. Cyprus the woman must be at least 13
2. Mexico the woman must be at least 12
3. Philippines the woman must be at least 12
Again, why has Mr. Khan not shown this? Could it be that he wants us to believe that this only happens in Muslim countries? This is deceitful Mr. Khan!
If we look to the average age of marriage we will see that every country averages about the same. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_at_first_marriage to see a list of these countries.
Next, you go on to state the following:
‘For example, if the age of first menses was 17 in 622 AD then it was allowed to marry a girl at 17. If the age of first menses is 12, it is allowed to marry a girl at 12 according to Islam. This means that the Quranic “alleged” lower limit is decreasing with the passage of time.’
It would appear as if you missed a vital point I made in my initial rebuttal. I said the following:
‘Being a Muslim means obeying the laws of the country you live in as long as they do NOT contradict or come into direct violation of Allah’s commandments in the Quran or clear cut Islamic Rulings. So in the case of marrying a younger woman; is this a part of Allah’s commandments or Islamic rulings? Is it an obligation put on ALL Muslim men?
Is it Wajib or Fard (strict obligation or compulsive act)? The answer is NO! If a Muslim man never marries a younger woman he is NO less a Muslim than the man who chooses to do so LEGALY. A Muslim man who denies himself this kind of marriage is no closer or further from entering heaven than a Muslim man who marries a young woman.
Amaar Khan has to demonstrate or prove that this act of marriage to a younger woman is a strict, compulsory obligation for all Muslim men, and I believe he can NOT because such information is non-existent and is NO part of Islam and its teachings.’
So if the law of the country a Muslim lives in says the woman has to be at least 16, then he must obey this law, as it does not come into conflict with the commandments of Allah. Also, I have said that this type of marriage is NOT a compulsory act upon all Muslim men. If you could demonstrate that it is, then you may have a point, but you will not find anything from the Quran or hadith that make this act a strict obligation on a Muslim Man. Mr. Khan, I await your proofs for this point.
Then, you quote the following hadith:
‘Muhammad wanted to marry a crawling baby-girl. Let us read what Ibn Ishaq, the most authentic biographer of Muhammad, wrote about this.
(Suhayli, ii.79: In the Riwaya of Yunus I. I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummu’l–Fadl) when she was a baby crawling before him and said, ‘If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her.’ But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. ‘Abdu’l-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba… (ibn Ishaq, 2001, p. 311).
Similarly there is another narration:
Muhammad saw Um Habiba the daughter of Abbas while she was fatim (age of nursing) and he said, “If she grows up while I am still alive, I will marry her.” (Musnad Ahmad, Number 25636
I find it funny that a certain part of speech here has been overlooked. Again, you are picking at parts to suit your goals without showing the bigger picture here. In these narrations, the Prophet says “If she grows up while I am alive, I will marry her”
What is the prophet saying here? What does he mean when he says ‘grows up’? I have been teaching English as a second language for some time now. I have taught many age groups. When I teach younger students I always ask them, ‘What do you want to be when you grow up?’. I get many answers but the point is clear. When we say ‘grown up’ we mean when they reach adulthood. We don’t mean next year or 2 years from now. Similarly, when the prophet says ‘If she grows up…’ he means when the woman reaches adulthood and becomes a woman. If the prophet was a pedophile, he would have demanded an immediate marriage to the girl. He would not wait for them to grow up Mr. Khan.
Then you say the following:
‘So there is no need for Muslims to hide the age of Ayesha by saying that narrations are wrong. If these narrations are wrong then all the narrations are wrong. If we accept what you say, then the whole Islamic literature is crap. This is a must conclusion.’
This is an inaccurate conclusion. First, we must make clear that the hadith are not free from the fallacies of man, since it did NOT come directly from Allah. Also, I have said in my rebuttal the following:
‘As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.’
I think we can agree that History is constantly re-writing itself. As more and more investigation is done, and as more artifacts are found, the former concepts we have about history change. A good example is Columbus. For years many have said that he discovered America. Recent discoveries have suggested that the Vikings were in the Americas before Columbus. In my place of residence, Indonesia, it has long been held that the first man (commonly known as ‘Java Man’) arrived here millions of years ago. Archeologists have contended that Java Man was the first Homo-erectus to arrive here. In recent times skeletal remains of homo-erectus man were found in Papua (referred to as ‘Hobbit Man’ because of their small stature) have been found and they pre-date Java Man, when carbon tested. Thus, Archeologists have re-written what was once held as historical fact.
If history is written and re-written then same must be true of the hadith. When one closely investigates the life and times of Muhammad, one sees that Aisha could not have been 9 years old when she married Muhammad. The problem here is that the Muslim community can NOT agree on anything nowadays (a shameful truth), so we are dragging our feet when it comes to correcting some of the hadith, based on investigation.
You then go on to say:
‘Who is Mohammed Ali? This is the first time, I heard of him. Is he a prophet , a companion of the prophet or a hadith writer? How can he say so? Any reference from the Quran , the hadith etc.?’
Just because you have not heard of the sources I quoted, doesn’t mean that they are not reliable. It just means that you have failed to do full research. Also, just because they are not prophets or companions of the prophet or hadith writers, doesn’t disqualify them as being truthful sources. If your logic is applied here, then we should not listen to historians or archeologists or anthropologists because they were not witnesses to the events they speak and investigate about. I have given you enough information about these men, so look them up, read their works, and then form a rebuttal if you do not agree with their statements.
Also, with regards to time line outlined by Abu Tahir Irfani in his book titled ‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’, you said the following:
‘When someone becomes that old, people don’t care too much about her exact age. It is very easy to say she was 100 years old when in fact she was only 90. The difference is not noticeable at the old age compared to younger folks, and it is questionable when 100 is a round figure.’
I find it suspicious that you would make such a claim. If history tells us she was 100, then she was 100. I am sure that if her being 100 proved that Aisha was 9 when she married Muhammad, you would have NO problem in accepting this age. Again you are ducking the facts that I have put forward by resorting to a cheap ‘cop out’. You then go on further to say the following:
‘Assuming the Hadith is authentic, it could be an honest mistake. Since in those days people did not carry birth certificates, it is very much likely that the person who reported her age to be 100 did not know that she was 10 years older than Aisha and did not sit down to make the calculations and deductions.’
Here is when you contradict yourself Amaar Khan. I will pose the exact same question you posed to me, with regards to Muhammad Ali and his investigation. I will change the name obviously to fit you.
‘Who is Amaar Khan? This is the first time, I heard of him. Is he a prophet , a companion of the prophet or a hadith writer? How can he say so? Any reference from the Quran , the hadith etc.?’
If you disqualify my source because he is not a prophet, a companion or a hadith writer, then we can disqualify your statements about the age of 100 because you are not a prophet, a companion or hadith writer. Also you say that the 27 claims you have pointed out about aisha’s age are accurate. When I say they may not be you reject my assertion, but when hadith are brought up about the age of a woman you, essentially say the same thing I say. You say ‘Assuming the hadith is authentic, it could be an HONEST MISTAKE.’ If you are willing to accept this then can’t we say that the age of Aisha in the 27 hadith (most of which are duplicates of the same event and separate events) may be an HONEST MISTAKE? See the contradiction here Mr. Khan? Finally, you say:
‘She was not an important person, and it did not occur to anyone that 1300 years later it would become the subject of a controversy. This could be a genuine mistake by the narrator of the Hadith.’
This is a laughable statement. The only one who considers a controversy is you and your hate filled affiliates. The Muslim world has no problem in accepting the fact that she was 100 years old. You have a problem with this because it shows that Aisha could not have been 9 when she married the prophet. Again, this is due in part to your lack of investigation Amaar Kahn. What do you mean she was not an important person! She was the sister of Aisha (prophets wife), daughter of Abu Bakr Siddiq (prophets closest and best friend) and sister in law to the prophet himself! I think it is safe to say she was more important than you say she was Amaar Khan.
You then go on to quote other hadith to try and show that Aisha was a young girl. You quote hadith that say she used to play with dolls and used to play on a swing. You also quote hadith that shows her nurse washed wiped her face. These hadith prove noting in your case because there is no explicit age given here. There is no age given as to ascertain Aisha’s age. The fact she played with dolls or played on a swing proves nothing. I know grown men who still play with GI Joe dolls because it was a fragment of their childhood, as funny as that sounds. My niece, who is 16, going on 17 still has dolls. I am a 31 year old man and I still like playing on a swing when I bring my children to the park. The point is, these activities don’t prove anything, with regards to age. These activities are enjoyed by people of all ages. Also, the fact that her nurse wiped her face proves nothing. That is what a nurse is supposed to do, look after and take care of the patient. You also quote hadith, with regards to Aisha bursting out in laughter. Again this proves nothing. Are you trying to tell me that full grown women DON’T burst out in laughter as well. You are trying to tell me that only adolescent girls do this! This is a ridiculous statement Mr. Khan. Lastly, you speak of the women in heaven as having clear or transparent skin, and that only adolescents have skin like this. This is not factual on your part Amaar because the description is illustrating the beauty of these companions as being the purest, most beautiful creation man has ever seen. This doesn’t speak to the age of these companions, besides in heaven, age is not an issue because we become immortalized. These statements prove nothing in your defense Mr. Khan.
In conclusion I will end this counter rebuttal with this. Mr. Khan if we were to agree that Aisha was 6 when she married the prophet and about 10 when the marriage was consummated, we must realize one important factor. This type of marriage was common place in Arabia, as well as in Asia, Africa and Europe. We can’t apply today’s logic and understanding to the actions of a person who lived 1400 years ago. We must judge them by the laws and common practices of the times they lived in. in Muhammad’s time this was common place and was not illegal. Ali Sina says that Muslims use this as an excuse to pardon the actions of the prophet. Don’t misunderstand me here, I am not using this as an excuse. I am merely showing that this act was common place. The implications of this act must be addressed when speaking about Muslims, who emulate the prophet, living in today’s society. As I said earlier, Muslims living in ‘western’ nations can NOT participate in this kind of marriage because the act is illegal in most ‘western’ countries. We have to abide by the laws of the country we live in, as long as they do not come into direct conflict with the commandments of Allah. It is your job, Mr. Khan, to disprove this fact. As I have said earlier, if you can disprove this then you have a point. You have to show us that this type of marriage is a strict obligation, put upon ALL Muslim men. Until you can show us this, your argument holds no weight.
I know that the opinion of many is that a man who is significantly older than a woman, should not be with that woman, but should look for a wife or companion that is closer in age. I hold this opinion to be true myself, but that does not make me any less or more a Muslim than someone who thinks otherwise. If the laws, here in Canada, for example, says a woman can consent to sex with a man at age 16, she can do so whether the man is 16, 18, 25, 40, or 60. A man who is older and does so, in this case, is not guilty of any crime, according to the laws of Canada, thus we should not label him a pedophile. Laws, like history evolve over time and we can not persecute a man who did an act that is illegal today, but was not illegal at the time of that mans action. Ali Sina and Amaar Khan have to take this fact into serious consideration before they assert their opinions. Instead of dealing with this fact, Ali Sina simply says it’s a way in which Muslims wiggle themselves out of a hard situation. Any notable historian would have no trouble in accepting this fact, but for some reason Ali Sina does!? These points are outlined on the following website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage .
Amaar Khan I must say that I do appreciate you taking the time to write on this subject. We both have busy schedules and it becomes hard for us to take time out of a busy day to do these things. We may have a difference of opinion, but at least we are both people who conduct themselves in a civilized manner. I await your response.
August 11, 2011 at 1:59 am
After sending this counter rebuttal to Amaar Khan, he attempted to respond. As you will see, he admits that he had the editors of the FFI block this counter rebuttal. I always asked why. If he has the truth, there should be no problem with him having this counter rebuttal published. as you will read, Amaar khan contradicted himself really bad. i will, however, give him more credit than Ali Sina. Amaar khan lasted 2 rounds in the debate, Ali Sina only lasted one. But in the end, Amaar Khan chose to end the debate early when he sae defeat coming for him. I sent him a second counter to what he said and never responded. it is amazing how tough these writers talk when in the company of friends, but when by themselves, they collapse like a house of cards. I have included my second counter rebuttal here for you to read.
Part 1
My first counter rebuttal I said:
The following is my counter rebuttal to what Amaar Khan has said. I post it here for readers to read and I will submit it for publication, so Amaar Khan can respond, if he wishes.
Amaar Khan responded:
I am not going to write any rebutal because you have not written anything sensible which deserves rebutal. It is just a commentary on your writing.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
It is not commentary on my writing. It is me repeating the same questions over and over because you duck them. You duck them because you have answer that supports your claims! If you would answer the questions, they wouldn’t be repeated.
My first counter rebuttal I said:
First, Mr. Khan states the following:
‘Now the main point here is that according to the Quran, any woman who got divorced before her first menstruation will have three months of “iddah”. So clearly it is allowable to marry a girl who have not yet menstruated. There is no lower limit mentioned in the Quran. So, it is allowed to marry any girl who has not yet have her first menses. She even can be less then one year old.’
Mr. Khan’s argument here, and in many other parts of his rebuttal is that a Muslim man can marry a young girl, as young as one year old, because the Quran does not set an age limit. To this I respond with the following Hadiths:
Malik related to me from Abdullah ibn al-Fadl from Nafi ibn Jubayr ibn Mutim from Abdullah ibn Abbas that the Messenger of Allah, SAAWS, said, “A woman who has been previously married is more entitled to her person than her guardian, and a virgin must be asked for her consent for herself, and her consent is her silence ” [Malik’s Muwatta, Book 28, Number 28.2.4]
The Prophet said, “A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! How can we know her permission?” He said, “Her silence (indicates her permission).” [Sahih Al-Bukhari 7.67]
As we can see, a virgin woman must be consulted and permission MUST be given by her. Now Mr. Khan, can consent be given by a one year old? Do they have the mental faculty to make such a decision? A one year old can’t even form words yet to form an opinion, let alone give permission for marriage. So we see from these hadith that a virgin, who is probably young and just about at that age of her first menstruation, must be old enough to give or refuse permission for marriage. There is no set age for this because everyone develops, mentally at different rates and there is no set age for one, with regards to mental capacity.
How is permission granted? Her silence, according to the hadith. I know that some uneducated people in here will say that a 1,2,3,4 or even 5 year old will be silent because they can’t form the words to properly express what is on their minds. The silence here means her agreement, not a literal silence. If she agrees to marriage, then she puts up no argument, and if she disagrees, she lets it be known to those who bring forth the proposal. So let’s make that clear so I can avoid these kinds of people. So Mr.Khan, since a young woman has to give permission, this illustrates that one can NOT seek marriage from a woman who has yet to develop the mental capability and speech to agree or disagree with the marriage.
Amaar Khan responded:
Permission of ayesha was never taken by her parents. Even she was very surprised at the first day when mohammed came to her.
Bukhari Volumn 007, Book 062, Hadith Number 090.
Narated By ‘Aisha : When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah’s Apostle to me in the forenoon.
We are not disscussing here allowance or prohibitation of child marriage in islam.My concerned is that mohammed did not care and married a young girl of age 9. So he cannot be a prophet.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
Just because the event of permission is not mentioned in the hadith you quoted, doesn’t mean that permission was never sought. in Bukhari 62:18 we read
‘The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for ‘Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said “But I am your brother.” The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry”
So contrary to what you say, Muhammad asked Aisha’s Wali, her father Abu Bakr for permission to marry her.
I also find it funny that you have ducked one of my points. You say there is no age limit and say there is by showing that the woman must have the mental capacity, as well as complex language skills before she can be approached for marriage. She must give permission before the marriage, as I have shown above. Can 1 year olds give permission Amaar? You have not answered this simple question but it is ok. By answering this question, honestly, you just disprove your own fact and I know that it is hard for some people to admit contradiction. I only ask that you stop using this argument because it is not true and you know it Amaar.
My first counter rebuttal I said:
Secondly, you give us a list of countries and list their legal age of sexual consent. Then you say:
‘From the above chart, the minimum age limit in Afghanistan is 14 years, and in Iran, it is 13 years. Both are Islamic countries, and they follow the Sunnah. But, still the age of Menarch varies from 10-16.’
Well what about Indiana and Iowa in the USA and Israel, where I have stated the age is 14 years old? How come you have not addressed this? Also, you point out Afghanistan and Iran to prove a point. We should look at other Muslim countries as well. In your list is the following:
Algeria and Bangladesh the woman must be at least 18
Tunisia the woman must be at least 17
These ages are older than the ages set forth in:
USA where the average is 16
Canada where the woman must be 16
UK where the woman must be 16
Other Muslim countries, in your list, like Egypt have the same age, being at least 16.
Mr. Khan you can’t pick and choose countries to suit your goals. Why don’t you emphasize these other countries? Could it be that if you did, people would see that not ALL Muslim countries allow such young age for marriage?
Let’s examine this more closely though. You have lied about the age of consent in Afghanistan. The stipulations for marriage there is that the man and woman must be married and be at least 18 years old. Although younger marriages take place in Afghanistan, etc, these marriages are ILLEGAL. The USA suffers from the same thing. Take Jeffs, the polygamous leader in Utah for example or David Koresh, they had relations with women under the legal age limit prescribed in the law. This is not an Islamic phenomena, it’s a worldwide issue. Every country battles with these types of illegal marriages. Also let’s look at the age of sexual consent in some NON MUSLIM countries:
1. Cyprus the woman must be at least 13
2. Mexico the woman must be at least 12
3. Philippines the woman must be at least 12
Again, why has Mr. Khan not shown this? Could it be that he wants us to believe that this only happens in Muslim countries? This is deceitful Mr. Khan!
If we look to the average age of marriage we will see that every country averages about the same. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_at_first_marriage to see a list of these countries.
Amaar Khan responded:
Whatever the ages of marriage in different countries are, we are not concerned with that.
I claims are that
1) Mohammed married 9 year old girl.
2) Have sex with her
3) He have attractions for other babies too
4) So he is a pedophile
I have given a number of hadiths and proved that Quran promote pedophilia. Now its your turn to give me some hadiths or verses of Quran against my arguments.
You are just find errors in my counter rebutal. This is the reason I stop editors to publish that debate at ffi. Because I don’t think this is a “debate”.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
I am glad that you realize there are mistakes in your debate. If this topic was of no importance, then why did YOU bring it up in the first place? I never made mention of age limits in so called Muslim nations, you did! I am responding to your claim here. The reason it is not important to you now is because I exposed your deceitful ways. You give the readers the impression that this is an Islamic phenomenon, and I showed that it happens all over the world, even in non Muslim countries. For future reference, if something is not important, then don’t bring up in the conversation.
My first counter rebuttal I said:
Next, you go on to state the following:
‘For example, if the age of first menses was 17 in 622 AD then it was allowed to marry a girl at 17. If the age of first menses is 12, it is allowed to marry a girl at 12 according to Islam. This means that the Quranic “alleged” lower limit is decreasing with the passage of time.’
It would appear as if you missed a vital point I made in my initial rebuttal. I said the following:
‘Being a Muslim means obeying the laws of the country you live in as long as they do NOT contradict or come into direct violation of Allah’s commandments in the Quran or clear cut Islamic Rulings. So in the case of marrying a younger woman; is this a part of Allah’s commandments or Islamic rulings? Is it an obligation put on ALL Muslim men?
Is it Wajib or Fard (strict obligation or compulsive act)? The answer is NO! If a Muslim man never marries a younger woman he is NO less a Muslim than the man who chooses to do so LEGALY. A Muslim man who denies himself this kind of marriage is no closer or further from entering heaven than a Muslim man who marries a young woman.
Amaar Khan has to demonstrate or prove that this act of marriage to a younger woman is a strict, compulsory obligation for all Muslim men, and I believe he can NOT because such information is non-existent and is NO part of Islam and its teachings.’
Amaar Khan responded:
It is not wajib or fard. But is allowed in islam. Islam is for every nation and it is complete code of life. Isnt it?
If child marriages are allowed in islam. It means that islam is wrong.
Futhermore, if we move a few decades back when there were no laws. Then what was islamic ruling about child marriage?
What you should be doing at that time? Surely marrying 9 year girls.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
I am happy again to see that you at least know that this type of marriage is not Wajib or fard. You missed the point here Amaar. Islam is a complete code for life. Marriage to a young girl is permitted, but the laws of the country you live in MUST permit as well! if the country says it is ILLEGAL, then a Muslim can’t marry a young girl. Also, it is not as easy as finding a young girl and getting married. As stated above her permission and the permission of Wali have to be given before one looks at the legal age in the country they live in. unfortunately this is not practiced the way it is supposed to by Muslims, but put blame on those Muslims, not the faith they say they believe in.
My first counter rebuttal I said:
So if the law of the country a Muslim lives in says the woman has to be at least 16, then he must obey this law, as it does not come into conflict with the commandments of Allah. Also, I have said that this type of marriage is NOT a compulsory act upon all Muslim men. If you could demonstrate that it is, then you may have a point, but you will not find anything from the Quran or hadith that make this act a strict obligation on a Muslim Man. Mr. Khan, I await your proofs for this point.
Then, you quote the following hadith:
‘Muhammad wanted to marry a crawling baby-girl. Let us read what Ibn Ishaq, the most authentic biographer of Muhammad, wrote about this.
(Suhayli, ii.79: In the Riwaya of Yunus I. I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummu’l–Fadl) when she was a baby crawling before him and said, ‘If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her.’ But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. ‘Abdu’l-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba… (ibn Ishaq, 2001, p. 311).
Similarly there is another narration:
Muhammad saw Um Habiba the daughter of Abbas while she was fatim (age of nursing) and he said, “If she grows up while I am still alive, I will marry her.” (Musnad Ahmad, Number 25636
I find it funny that a certain part of speech here has been overlooked. Again, you are picking at parts to suit your goals without showing the bigger picture here. In these narrations, the Prophet says “If she grows up while I am alive, I will marry her”
What is the prophet saying here? What does he mean when he says ‘grows up’? I have been teaching English as a second language for some time now. I have taught many age groups. When I teach younger students I always ask them, ‘What do you want to be when you grow up?’. I get many answers but the point is clear. When we say ‘grown up’ we mean when they reach adulthood. We don’t mean next year or 2 years from now. Similarly, when the prophet says ‘If she grows up…’ he means when the woman reaches adulthood and becomes a woman. If the prophet was a pedophile, he would have demanded an immediate marriage to the girl. He would not wait for them to grow up Mr. Khan.
Amaar Khan responded:
Ha ha ….
I can understand you really. I have quoted that hadith to prove that mohammed even have attraction for a crawling baby. Do you ever think to marry a crawling baby?
Frankly , please tell me. Do you ever have feeling like that?
You know what was the age of mohammed at that time?
He was more than 60 and have more than 30 wives. Still he wish to marry a crawling girl. Isnt it shamefull?
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
Again, you have ducked my point because you have no feasible response. The prophet clearly said “if she grows up”, meaning when they become ADULTS. Amaar I said it before and I will say it again, if Muhammad was a pedophile he would have ordered the marriage right away and would have said he would marry them if they grew up. How come you haven’t addressed this? Could it be that you have no response for this FACT?
My first counter rebuttal I said:
Then you say the following:
‘So there is no need for Muslims to hide the age of Ayesha by saying that narrations are wrong. If these narrations are wrong then all the narrations are wrong. If we accept what you say, then the whole Islamic literature is crap. This is a must conclusion.’
This is an inaccurate conclusion. First, we must make clear that the hadith are not free from the fallacies of man, since it did NOT come directly from Allah. Also, I have said in my rebuttal the following:
‘As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.’
I think we can agree that History is constantly re-writing itself. As more and more investigation is done, and as more artifacts are found, the former concepts we have about history change. A good example is Columbus. For years many have said that he discovered America. Recent discoveries have suggested that the Vikings were in the Americas before Columbus. In my place of residence, Indonesia, it has long been held that the first man (commonly known as ‘Java Man’) arrived here millions of years ago. Archeologists have contended that Java Man was the first Homo-erectus to arrive here. In recent times skeletal remains of homo-erectus man were found in Papua (referred to as ‘Hobbit Man’ because of their small stature) have been found and they pre-date Java Man, when carbon tested. Thus, Archeologists have re-written what was once held as historical fact.
If history is written and re-written then same must be true of the hadith. When one closely investigates the life and times of Muhammad, one sees that Aisha could not have been 9 years old when she married Muhammad. The problem here is that the Muslim community can NOT agree on anything nowadays (a shameful truth), so we are dragging our feet when it comes to correcting some of the hadith, based on investigation.
Amaar Khan responded:
O my dear brother or perhaps uncle. You are really a good man. But I don’t understand why you don’t believe that all the narrations about ayesha cannot be corrected. Because they are in a large number. And this rebutal is not going to be published at ffi. If you want then we can also debate or share our veiws on different topic of islam. I am a student from pakistan. I left islam because it is not a true religion. And none of the religion is true. All are man made.
Reformation and correctness of ahadith is being done in turkey and in pakistan also.but it is not very easy to reform islam. but still attempts are being made.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
If reformation of hadith are being done in your home country, why not open yourself to the possibility that the age of Aisha, in hadith , may be incorrect? You say these hadith are in large number but this is misleading. You quote 27 sources, which in the grand scope of hadith is very small, but what you have failed to do is show us how many of these 27 narrations are repeats or duplicates. How many of these hadith speak about the same situation. If you and I see an incident, and both record that incident, is it 2 incidents? No, it is one incident, with two eye witness accounts (yours and mine). I know how many of these hadith are duplicates of the same situation, do you? Study this and you will see that “huge” number of 27 shrink my friend.
August 11, 2011 at 1:59 am
My first counter rebuttal I said:
You then go on to say:
‘Who is Mohammed Ali? This is the first time, I heard of him. Is he a prophet , a companion of the prophet or a hadith writer? How can he say so? Any reference from the Quran , the hadith etc.?’
Just because you have not heard of the sources I quoted, doesn’t mean that they are not reliable. It just means that you have failed to do full research. Also, just because they are not prophets or companions of the prophet or hadith writers, doesn’t disqualify them as being truthful sources. If your logic is applied here, then we should not listen to historians or archeologists or anthropologists because they were not witnesses to the events they speak and investigate about. I have given you enough information about these men, so look them up, read their works, and then form a rebuttal if you do not agree with their statements.
Amaar Khan responded:
I think you have never heard or read any debate. You are to fucussed on primary source of islam. I havent quoted khomeni’s saying about pedopilia’a allowance. So why are you qouting the secondary sources.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
Ammar Khan I do not know if you know it or not, but have severely CONTRADICTED yourself by making such a statement. In your book, that prompted this debate, called ‘A complete guide to pedophilia in Islam’, you have a chapter titled ‘pedophilia in fatwas’. In this chapter to use secondary sources to prove your point. You say you have not quoted Khomeni, but in this chapter in your book, you quote Khomeni several times. Why is it ok for you to quote secondary sources, but it is not ok for me to do the same/ You have really contradicted yourself Amaar! Here is the link to the chapter, from Amaar khan’s book, where he quotes secondary sources http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/02/14/2047/3/. If you are too busy to read this link, here is an example from that chapter, where Amaar Khan quotes Khomeni, a source he says he NEVER quoted:
‘Khomeini’s Teachings on sex with infants and animals
Islamic Teachings on sex with infants:
“A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister.”
The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in “Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom”’
My first counter rebuttal I said:
Also, with regards to time line outlined by Abu Tahir Irfani in his book titled ‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’, you said the following:
‘When someone becomes that old, people don’t care too much about her exact age. It is very easy to say she was 100 years old when in fact she was only 90. The difference is not noticeable at the old age compared to younger folks, and it is questionable when 100 is a round figure.’
I find it suspicious that you would make such a claim. If history tells us she was 100, then she was 100. I am sure that if her being 100 proved that Aisha was 9 when she married Muhammad, you would have NO problem in accepting this age. Again you are ducking the facts that I have put forward by resorting to a cheap ‘cop out’. You then go on further to say the following:
‘Assuming the Hadith is authentic, it could be an honest mistake. Since in those days people did not carry birth certificates, it is very much likely that the person who reported her age to be 100 did not know that she was 10 years older than Aisha and did not sit down to make the calculations and deductions.’
Here is when you contradict yourself Amaar Khan. I will pose the exact same question you posed to me, with regards to Muhammad Ali and his investigation. I will change the name obviously to fit you.
‘Who is Amaar Khan? This is the first time, I heard of him. Is he a prophet , a companion of the prophet or a hadith writer? How can he say so? Any reference from the Quran , the hadith etc.?’
If you disqualify my source because he is not a prophet, a companion or a hadith writer, then we can disqualify your statements about the age of 100 because you are not a prophet, a companion or hadith writer. Also you say that the 27 claims you have pointed out about aisha’s age are accurate. When I say they may not be you reject my assertion, but when hadith are brought up about the age of a woman you, essentially say the same thing I say. You say ‘Assuming the hadith is authentic, it could be an HONEST MISTAKE.’ If you are willing to accept this then can’t we say that the age of Aisha in the 27 hadith (most of which are duplicates of the same event and separate events) may be an HONEST MISTAKE? See the contradiction here Mr. Khan? Finally, you say:
‘She was not an important person, and it did not occur to anyone that 1300 years later it would become the subject of a controversy. This could be a genuine mistake by the narrator of the Hadith.’
This is a laughable statement. The only one who considers a controversy is you and your hate filled affiliates. The Muslim world has no problem in accepting the fact that she was 100 years old. You have a problem with this because it shows that Aisha could not have been 9 when she married the prophet. Again, this is due in part to your lack of investigation Amaar Kahn. What do you mean she was not an important person! She was the sister of Aisha (prophets wife), daughter of Abu Bakr Siddiq (prophets closest and best friend) and sister in law to the prophet himself! I think it is safe to say she was more important than you say she was Amaar Khan.
Amaar Khan responded:
You are right, I have not investigated on this argument. Because there is no need to investigate for that because there are tons of evidence against it so there is no need to investigate at all.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
Again, you contradict yourself for the same reason I mentioned above. You either accept reformation of hadith or you don’t. You can’t pick and choose Amaar. Investigate the time line of events and you will see that Aisha could not have been 9 at the time of marriage.
My first counter rebuttal I said:
You then go on to quote other hadith to try and show that Aisha was a young girl. You quote hadith that say she used to play with dolls and used to play on a swing. You also quote hadith that shows her nurse washed wiped her face. These hadith prove noting in your case because there is no explicit age given here. There is no age given as to ascertain Aisha’s age. The fact she played with dolls or played on a swing proves nothing. I know grown men who still play with GI Joe dolls because it was a fragment of their childhood, as funny as that sounds. My niece, who is 16, going on 17 still has dolls. I am a 31 year old man and I still like playing on a swing when I bring my children to the park. The point is, these activities don’t prove anything, with regards to age. These activities are enjoyed by people of all ages. Also, the fact that her nurse wiped her face proves nothing. That is what a nurse is supposed to do, look after and take care of the patient. You also quote hadith, with regards to Aisha bursting out in laughter. Again this proves nothing. Are you trying to tell me that full grown women DON’T burst out in laughter as well. You are trying to tell me that only adolescent girls do this! This is a ridiculous statement Mr. Khan. Lastly, you speak of the women in heaven as having clear or transparent skin, and that only adolescents have skin like this. This is not factual on your part Amaar because the description is illustrating the beauty of these companions as being the purest, most beautiful creation man has ever seen. This doesn’t speak to the age of these companions, besides in heaven, age is not an issue because we become immortalized. These statements prove nothing in your defense Mr. Khan.
Amaar Khan responded:
Brother , all given hadiths support my argument that ayesha was nine because only little girls play with dolls. And you know that.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
I am not surprised at your comment. You are again, ducking my point here because you have no answer. Playing with dolls, playing on a swing are activities enjoyed by a wide range of age groups, and you know that too Amaar. Anyone who has teenaged children will tell you this! Also, you haven’t discussed the rest. Women don’t burst out into laughter Amaar? You are truly lost if you don’t think so. What about the nurse? Is it not their job to take care of people, do they not wipe the faces of adults too? Come on Amaar, it is about time you admit that these events prove nothing!
My first counter rebuttal I said:
In conclusion I will end this counter rebuttal with this. Mr. Khan if we were to agree that Aisha was 6 when she married the prophet and about 10 when the marriage was consummated, we must realize one important factor. This type of marriage was common place in Arabia, as well as in Asia, Africa and Europe. We can’t apply today’s logic and understanding to the actions of a person who lived 1400 years ago. We must judge them by the laws and common practices of the times they lived in. in Muhammad’s time this was common place and was not illegal.
Amaar Khan responded:
True, that was not illegal at that time. You will have to accept that mohammed was a crimanal and child abuser according to our modren definations.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
Any historian will tell you that you can’t apply today’s reasoning to events of the past to determine guilt or innocence. We must judge a man by the laws that were present at the time of the man’s life. It was permitted during Muhammad’s life so he is not a criminal. You say it was not illegal at that time, so we can’t possibly consider him a criminal. Muhammad is not living amongst us today so why or what sense does it make to judge him by today’s laws?
My first counter rebuttal I said:
Ali Sina says that Muslims use this as an excuse to pardon the actions of the prophet. Don’t misunderstand me here, I am not using this as an excuse. I am merely showing that this act was common place. The implications of this act must be addressed when speaking about Muslims, who emulate the prophet, living in today’s society. As I said earlier, Muslims living in ‘western’ nations can NOT participate in this kind of marriage because the act is illegal in most ‘western’ countries. We have to abide by the laws of the country we live in, as long as they do not come into direct conflict with the commandments of Allah. It is your job, Mr. Khan, to disprove this fact. As I have said earlier, if you can disprove this then you have a point. You have to show us that this type of marriage is a strict obligation, put upon ALL Muslim men. Until you can show us this, your argument holds no weight.
Amaar Khan responded:
I have no need to prove that it is obligatory in islam. I have proved what I was to prove that mohammed is a child abuser.
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
Once again, and without surprise, you have ducked my point again because you have no argument! You have to prove this point because it has implications in today’s time and society. If it is obligatory, then you have a case, if it is not, you have no case.
My first counter rebuttal I said:
I know that the opinion of many is that a man who is significantly older than a woman, should not be with that woman, but should look for a wife or companion that is closer in age. I hold this opinion to be true myself, but that does not make me any less or more a Muslim than someone who thinks otherwise. If the laws, here in Canada, for example, says a woman can consent to sex with a man at age 16, she can do so whether the man is 16, 18, 25, 40, or 60. A man who is older and does so, in this case, is not guilty of any crime, according to the laws of Canada, thus we should not label him a pedophile. Laws, like history evolve over time and we can not persecute a man who did an act that is illegal today, but was not illegal at the time of that mans action. Ali Sina and Amaar Khan have to take this fact into serious consideration before they assert their opinions. Instead of dealing with this fact, Ali Sina simply says it’s a way in which Muslims wiggle themselves out of a hard situation. Any notable historian would have no trouble in accepting this fact, but for some reason Ali Sina does!? These points are outlined on the following website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage .
Amaar Khan I must say that I do appreciate you taking the time to write on this subject. We both have busy schedules and it becomes hard for us to take time out of a busy day to do these things. We may have a difference of opinion, but at least we are both people who conduct themselves in a civilized manner. I await your response.
Amaar Khan responded:
Thanks for your response. You havent given any argument which have some weight. And frankly , I can not understand your phsychology. You are 31 living in indonesia.but have a very little knowledge about islam.i have given 27 direct ahadiths. And many other indirect ahadith showing ayesha’s small age. Proved by quran that there is no age limit in quran. Gave many fatawas by ulemas. But you have just given some copy paste material from islamic sites about age controversies. Still you are hung with the point that ayesha was not 9.
I really can not understan. Whether you have vowed not to accept the truth or only want to win the debate.
Ok
I declared you as a winner of the debate . now please drink some cold water and think out that how can tons of evidence be wrong?
I am going to end with “debate”
But hope that you will be sharing you veiws with me
Regards
amaar
I countered Ammar Khan by saying:
I can understand why you would want to cut off the debate. It is okay Amaar. What you have shown me here is that you have nothing to counter with. All you do is repeat earlier statements and duck all my points because you have NO response. Good day to you sir, you just re-affirmed my devotion to Islam my friend.
August 11, 2011 at 2:01 am
cerita lama dengan judul baru..basi kaleeeee
kagak mudeng2 apa setelah liat penjelasan dari orang laen? apa udah keabisan stock?
woi moderator, jgn di remove dong penjelasan gue yg sebelumnya
August 12, 2011 at 2:42 am
It is hard to say that, we don’t have a good side from your leader, except only flesh needed not more, How could a great leader is like him, decided marrying a childish from age and phichology , and you think that is a good
and you are proud of it ? read these you, will differ which one is better
” Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are : adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred,contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murder, drunkenness, reveirish, and the like; of which I tell you be forehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” ( Galatia 5 : 19-21 )
August 12, 2011 at 3:15 am
http://www.beritaunik.net/unik-aneh/gila-satu-kelas-kompak-hamil-bersama.html
hehehehe ternyata moral para penuduh muhammad pedofilia lebih ancur
August 12, 2011 at 3:04 pm
hehehhehehheehhehhehhehhehe
muhamad itu phedofil,sangat jelas terang benderang seperti matahari.
nehhh..saya kasih hadist soheh bukhari:
Perilaku budi pekerti yang terpuji (43) : 376
حَدَّثَنِي فَرْوَةُ بْنُ أَبِي الْمَغْرَاءِ حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ مُسْهِرٍ عَنْ هِشَامٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا قَالَتْ تَزَوَّجَنِي النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَأَنَا بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ فَقَدِمْنَا الْمَدِينَةَ فَنَزَلْنَا فِي بَنِي الْحَارِثِ بْنِ خَزْرَجٍ فَوُعِكْتُ فَتَمَرَّقَ شَعَرِي فَوَفَى جُمَيْمَةً فَأَتَتْنِي أُمِّي أُمُّ رُومَانَ وَإِنِّي لَفِي أُرْجُوحَةٍ وَمَعِي صَوَاحِبُ لِي فَصَرَخَتْ بِي فَأَتَيْتُهَا لَا أَدْرِي مَا تُرِيدُ بِي فَأَخَذَتْ بِيَدِي حَتَّى أَوْقَفَتْنِي عَلَى بَابِ الدَّارِ وَإِنِّي لَأُنْهِجُ حَتَّى سَكَنَ بَعْضُ نَفَسِي ثُمَّ أَخَذَتْ شَيْئًا مِنْ مَاءٍ فَمَسَحَتْ بِهِ وَجْهِي وَرَأْسِي ثُمَّ أَدْخَلَتْنِي الدَّارَ فَإِذَا نِسْوَةٌ مِنْ الْأَنْصَارِ فِي الْبَيْتِ فَقُلْنَ عَلَى الْخَيْرِ وَالْبَرَكَةِ وَعَلَى خَيْرِ طَائِرٍ فَأَسْلَمَتْنِي إِلَيْهِنَّ فَأَصْلَحْنَ مِنْ شَأْنِي فَلَمْ يَرُعْنِي إِلَّا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ضُحًى فَأَسْلَمَتْنِي إِلَيْهِ وَأَنَا يَوْمَئِذٍ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ
43.376/3605. Telah menceritakan kepadaku Farwah bin Abu Al Maghra’ telah menceritakan kepada kami ‘Ali bin Mushir dari Hisyam dari bapaknya dari ‘Aisyah radliallahu ‘anha berkata; Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahiku saat aku berusia enam tahun, lalu kami tiba di Madinah dan singgah di kampung Bani Al harits bin Khazraj. Kemudian aku menderita demam hingga rambutku menjadi rontok. Setelah sembuh, rambutku tumbuh lebat sehingga melebihi bahu. Kemudian ibuku, Ummu Ruman datang menemuiku saat aku sedang berada dalam ayunan bersama teman-temanku. Ibuku berteriak memanggilku lalu aku datangi sementara aku tidak mengerti apa yang diinginkannya. Ibuku menggandeng tanganku lalu membawaku hingga sampai di depan pintu rumah. Aku masih dalam keadaan terengah-engah hingga aku menenangkan diri sendiri. Kemudian ibuku mengambil air lalu membasuhkannya ke muka dan kepalaku lalu dia memasukkan aku ke dalam rumah itu yang ternyata didalamnya ada para wanita Anshar. Mereka berkata; Mudah-mudahan memperoleh kebaikan dan keberkahan dan dan mudah-mudahan mendapat nasib yang terbaik. Lalu ibuku menyerahkan aku kepada mereka. Mereka merapikan penampilanku. Dan tidak ada yang membuatku terkejut melainkan keceriaan Rasulullah shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam. Akhirnya mereka menyerahkan aku kepada beliau dimana saat itu usiaku sembilan tahun.
Perilaku budi pekerti yang terpuji (43) : 378
حَدَّثَنِي عُبَيْدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو أُسَامَةَ عَنْ هِشَامٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ تُوُفِّيَتْ خَدِيجَةُ قَبْلَ مَخْرَجِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِلَى الْمَدِينَةِ بِثَلَاثِ سِنِينَ فَلَبِثَ سَنَتَيْنِ أَوْ قَرِيبًا مِنْ ذَلِكَ وَنَكَحَ عَائِشَةَ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ ثُمَّ بَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ
43.378/3607. Telah menceritakan kepadaku ‘Ubaid bin Isma’il telah menceritakan kepada kami Abu Usamah dari Hisyam dari bapaknya berkata; Khadijah Radiallahu ‘anha meninggal dunia sebelum hijrah Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam ke Madinah selang tiga tahun. Lalu beliau tinggal di Madinah dua tahun atau sekitar masa itu kemudian beliau menikahi ‘Aisyah Radiallahu ‘anha ketika dia berusia enam tahun. Kemudian tinggal bersamanya ketika dia berusia sembilan tahun.
Nikah (47) : 64
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ عَنْ هِشَامٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ وَأُدْخِلَتْ عَلَيْهِ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ وَمَكَثَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعًا
47.64/4738. Telah menceritakan kepada kami Muhammad bin Yusuf Telah menceritakan kepada kami Sufyan dari Hisyam dari bapaknya dari Aisyah radliallahu ‘anha, bahwasanya; Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahinya saat ia berumur enam tahun, dan ia digauli saat berumur sembilan tahun. Dan Aisyah hidup bersama dengan beliau selama sembilan tahun.
Nikah (47) : 65
حَدَّثَنَا مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ قَالَ هِشَامٌ وَأُنْبِئْتُ أَنَّهَا كَانَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعَ سِنِينَ
47.65/4739. Telah menceritakan kepada kami Mu’alla bin Asad Telah menceritakan kepada kami Wuhaib dari Hisyam bin Urwah dari bapaknya dari Aisyah bahwa Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahinya saat itu berusia enam tahun, dan mulai menggaulinya saat ia berumur sembilan tahun. Hisyam berkata; Dan telah diberitakan kepadaku bahwa Aisyah hidup bersama Rasulullah shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam selama sembilan tahun.
Nikah (47) : 87
حَدَّثَنَا قَبِيصَةُ بْنُ عُقْبَةَ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ عَنْ عُرْوَةَ تَزَوَّجَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَائِشَةَ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ وَمَكَثَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعًا
47.87/4761. Telah menceritakan kepada kami Qabishah bin Utbah Telah menceritakan kepada kami Sufyan dari Hisyam bin Urwah dari Urwah bahwasnya; Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahi Aisyah saat ia berumur enam tahun, kemudian beliau hidup bersama dengannya (menggaulinya) saat berumur sembilan tahun. Dan Aisyah hidup bersama Rasulullah shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam juga selama sembilan tahun.
itu baru hadist bukhari lohh…
hadist dari soheh muslim juga banyak ,dari sunan abu daud juga banyak.
saya kacian aja ama muslim,ntar tambah malu lagi,nabinya phedofil
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August 12, 2011 at 4:05 pm
Saya kacian sama kafirun yang wawasan tentang pedofilinya terbatas. Kalau mereka tahu ciri pedofil menurut Krafft-Ebing itu apa, tambah malu lagi orang orang yang berdiri si sampingnya
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Ciri pedofil menurut Krafft-Ebing: “Daya tarik utama subyek adalah untuk anak-anak, daripada orang dewasa.”
Istri umumnya Rasulullah SAW adalah janda yang telah berumur, gak punya ciri pedofil tersebut.
Diagnostik dan Statistik Manual Gangguan Mental Edisi ke-4 Edisi Revisi (DSM-IV-TR) menguraikan kriteria khusus yakni melibatkan beberapa jenis aktivitas seksual dengan anak praremaja (usia 13 atau lebih muda, meskipun permulaan pubertas dapat bervariasi)
Tidak ada hadits yang menyebutkan dengan pasti kapan Rasulullah SAW melakukan aktivitas seksual dengan Aisyah.
Dalam wikipedia disebutkan bahwa masa pubertas dalam kehidupan kita biasanya dimulai saat berumur delapan hingga sepuluh tahun dan berakhir lebih kurang di usia 15 hingga 16 tahun.
Aisyah saat tinggal serumah dengan Rasulullah SAW berusia 9 tahun, dan usia tersebut melampaui masa puberitas yakni 8 tahun. Observasi Imam Syafi’i menemukan ada perempuan yang telah puber pada usia 9 tahun.
Lagi pula, bagaimana mungkin seorang pedofil sanggup menahan dirinya untuk tidak melakukan aktivitas seksual selama lebih dari 2 tahun dengan wanita yang telah dinikahinya. Pastor Gereja saja tidak bisa menahan diri sampe anak-anak kecil itu dicabulin, hehehehe … ups, kok malah faktanya pastor Gereja yang pedofil ya? LOL.
August 12, 2011 at 7:20 pm
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tahu dari mana tong aisyah puber pada usia 8 tahun??????
sebelum usia 9 tahun,aisyah tidak tinggal satu rumah dengan muhamad.
mengapa muhamad tidak ngesex dengan aisyah sebelum usia 9 tahun????
itu karna dia telah berjanji kepada sahabat dan pendukung utamanya si abu bakar. seculun culunnya abu bakar, muhamad tidak tega menghianati nya.,lagipula muhamad butuh dukungan abu bakar : moral dan finansial.kita tahu abu bakar adalah orang terpandang dan dihormati di mekkah.
sudah jelas wahai pemuja phedofilia?????
hehehhhehehehhehhehehehehhehehheh
muhamad resmi penyandang gelar phedofilia begitu ia ngesex dengan aisyah 9 tahun. Fakta bahwa istri nabi yang lain berusia dewasa tidaklah menghapus statusnya sebagai phedofil.
jika saya membunuh satu orang , dan menghabiskan sisa hidup saya dengan bertobatan nasuha,bahkan kemudiaan saya berprofesi sebagai dokter yang menyelamatkan banyak nyawa, APAKAH STATUS SAYA SEBAGAI PEMBUNUH HILANG BEGITU SAJA???? tentu saja tidak.
ahhh..copas lagi ahh hadistnya biar muslim malu…..
حَدَّثَنِي عُبَيْدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو أُسَامَةَ عَنْ هِشَامٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ تُوُفِّيَتْ خَدِيجَةُ قَبْلَ مَخْرَجِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِلَى الْمَدِينَةِ بِثَلَاثِ سِنِينَ فَلَبِثَ سَنَتَيْنِ أَوْ قَرِيبًا مِنْ ذَلِكَ وَنَكَحَ عَائِشَةَ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ ثُمَّ بَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ
43.378/3607. Telah menceritakan kepadaku ‘Ubaid bin Isma’il telah menceritakan kepada kami Abu Usamah dari Hisyam dari bapaknya berkata; Khadijah Radiallahu ‘anha meninggal dunia sebelum hijrah Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam ke Madinah selang tiga tahun. Lalu beliau tinggal di Madinah dua tahun atau sekitar masa itu kemudian beliau menikahi ‘Aisyah Radiallahu ‘anha ketika dia berusia enam tahun. Kemudian tinggal bersamanya ketika dia berusia sembilan tahun.
Nikah (47) : 64
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ عَنْ هِشَامٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ وَأُدْخِلَتْ عَلَيْهِ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ وَمَكَثَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعًا
47.64/4738. Telah menceritakan kepada kami Muhammad bin Yusuf Telah menceritakan kepada kami Sufyan dari Hisyam dari bapaknya dari Aisyah radliallahu ‘anha, bahwasanya; Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahinya saat ia berumur enam tahun, dan ia digauli saat berumur sembilan tahun. Dan Aisyah hidup bersama dengan beliau selama sembilan tahun.
Nikah (47) : 65
حَدَّثَنَا مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ قَالَ هِشَامٌ وَأُنْبِئْتُ أَنَّهَا كَانَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعَ سِنِينَ
47.65/4739. Telah menceritakan kepada kami Mu’alla bin Asad Telah menceritakan kepada kami Wuhaib dari Hisyam bin Urwah dari bapaknya dari Aisyah bahwa Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahinya saat itu berusia enam tahun, dan mulai menggaulinya saat ia berumur sembilan tahun. Hisyam berkata; Dan telah diberitakan kepadaku bahwa Aisyah hidup bersama Rasulullah shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam selama sembilan tahun.
Nikah (47) : 87
حَدَّثَنَا قَبِيصَةُ بْنُ عُقْبَةَ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ عَنْ عُرْوَةَ تَزَوَّجَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَائِشَةَ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ وَمَكَثَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعًا
47.87/4761. Telah menceritakan kepada kami Qabishah bin Utbah Telah menceritakan kepada kami Sufyan dari Hisyam bin Urwah dari Urwah bahwasnya; Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahi Aisyah saat ia berumur enam tahun, kemudian beliau hidup bersama dengannya (menggaulinya) saat berumur sembilan tahun. Dan Aisyah hidup bersama Rasulullah shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam juga selama sembilan tahun.
kaciaaaaannnnn…deh loe…..
August 12, 2011 at 8:18 pm
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Siapa yang mengatakan Aisyah puber pada usia 8 tahun? Saya mengatakan usia awal puber itu 8 tahun. Apakah anda bisa menunjukan bahwa Aisyah belum puber saat berusia 9 tahun dan saat digauli oleh Rasulullah SAW? Anda harus menunjukannya, karena salah satu karakteristik pedofili menurut Diagnostik dan Statistik Manual Gangguan Mental Edisi ke-4 Edisi Revisi (DSM-IV-TR) adalah melakukan aktivitas seksual dengan wanita yang belum puber .
sudah jelas wahai orang yang tidak memahami phedofilia?????
hehehhhehehehhehhehehehehhehehheh
Perkataan anda “Fakta bahwa istri nabi yang lain berusia dewasa tidaklah menghapus statusnya sebagai phedofil.”, artinya anda menutup mata terhadap ciri pedofil yang dikemukakan oleh Krafft-Ebing yakni “Daya tarik utama subyek adalah untuk anak-anak, daripada orang dewasa.”. Anda tidak dapat berlaku demikian, kecuali anda dapat menunjukan tidak sahnya pendapat Krafft-Ebing tersebut. Kalau pendapat Krafft-Ebing tidak bisa anda tolak, maka bagaimana bisa anda mengesampingkan fakta bahwa Nabi kami bukan pedofil karena daya tarik beliau bukan anak-anak?
Bodoh kok dipelihara. kaciaaaaannnnn…deh loe…..
August 13, 2011 at 6:33 am
akui saja memang kebenaranya terang benderang Aisha sendiri melaporkan hal ini dalm lusinan hadist.(sebagian hadistnya: sahih bukhari vol.7 buku 62 no.64,sahih bukhari vol 7 buku 62 no,65,sahih bukhari vol 7 buku 62 no.88)
Harap dingat bahwa oranr-orang muslim tidak ada yand merasa malu terhadap kenyataan bahwa Muhammad adalah seorang Pedofil,karena meraka sendiri yang mempraktekkan tindakan yang nista ini selama rentang waktu seribuan tahun lebih,dan bahkan sedang mempraktekkan sampai sekarang.
August 13, 2011 at 7:00 am
Istri RasuluLlah janda semuanya kecuali Aisyah.Umur Aisyah pun belum dapat kepastian karena banyaknya riwayat yang bercanggahan.Tapi yang pasti Aisyah sudah mencapai usia pubertas ketika bersama dengan nabi yang minimalnya adalah 12 tahun.Kalau ikut lafaz yang didengar dan dilapiorkan oleh perawi nabi menikahi Aisyah ketika beliau berusia 6 tahun.Tapi kalau mengikut fakta dan sejarah dan logis usianya 16 sebab Aisyah berusia 5 @ 6 tahun semasa 4 tahun kenabian yaitu semasa surah Al Qamar diturunkan.10 tahun selepas itu nabi berhijrah dan menikahi Aisyah.Jadi mungkin usia Aisyah adalah 16 tahun.Antara enam dengan enam belas tahun sangat memungkinkan perawi telah tersalah dengar.A[papun berapa usia Aisyah sewaktu menikah tidak penting kepada muslim.Apa yang penting beliau telah akil baligh.Usia beliau berkawin hanya begitu penting kepada orang-orang yang sakit hati sama nabi Muhammad.
August 13, 2011 at 7:22 am
@ungke
Muslim mengakui kebenaran terang benderang bahwa Aisha melaporkan hal ini dalm lusinan hadist.(sebagian hadistnya: sahih bukhari vol.7 buku 62 no.64,sahih bukhari vol 7 buku 62 no,65,sahih bukhari vol 7 buku 62 no.88)
Harap dingat bahwa orang-orang kafir tidak ada yang merasa malu menuduh-nuduh Muhammad SAW seorang Pedofil tanpa bukti, dan ternyata meraka sendirilah yang mempraktekkan tindakan yang nista ini yang telah terungap oleh media pada kurun waktu sekarang,dan bahkan mungkin sedang dipraktikan oleh sejumlah Pastor sampai sekarang.
August 13, 2011 at 8:32 am
wah kayaknya sdri beraklah sama ungke kagak menyimak diskusi antara sdr someone,saya dan neter muslim lainnya tentang usia aisyah ketika menikah dengan muhammad, sayang sekali jika forum seperti ini diisi oleh manusia bermental kekanak2an
August 13, 2011 at 8:59 am
@someone
Kami tidak menuduh tanpa bukti,terus apa yang cocok kami sebutkan jika seorang tua bangka meniduri anak berumur 9 tahun.?
Muhammad mengklaim bahwa ia adalah nabi terakhir sebagai seorang nabi sepatutnya Ia memikirkan suri teladan,moralitas kehidupan sesudah ia tiada,tp khusus pada perkawinannya dengan Aisha moral apa yang dapat kita diteladani.?
Pastor,pendeta atau apapun namanya yang anda sebutkan yang melakukan pelecehan terhadap anak-anak adalah orang-orang sakit,dan tidak ada bukti bahwa perbuatan-perbuatan tersebut didasari pada ajaran Yesus.Sekiranya masa ini anda menikahi anak berumur 6 tahun anda adalah orang gila,dan akal sehat tidak bisa menelahnya.
August 13, 2011 at 10:15 am
Waduh, pemahamannya parah … hehehe
Kan udah disebutin, menurut Diagnostik dan Statistik Manual Gangguan Mental Edisi ke-4 Edisi Revisi (DSM-IV-TR) adalah melakukan aktivitas seksual dengan wanita yang belum puber. Kon anda yakin Aisyah belum puber saat berhubungan badan dengan Nabi. Tahu dari mana? Anda ngerti puber tidak?
Nih persamaan logikanya begini:
A adalah melakukan aktivitas seksual dengan wanita yang belum puber
B adalah daya tarik utama subyek adalah untuk anak-anak, daripada orang dewasa
Jika +A dan +B maka +Pedofil
Nabi kami tidak A (-A), dan Nabi kami tidak B (-B), oleh karenanya jika -A dan -B maka Nabi kami -Pedofil.
Kalau anda keukeuh mengatakan Aisyah digauli dalam kondisi belum puber tapi mengakui fakta bahwa umumnya istri nabi adalah janda dewasa, maka coba anda kembalikan lagi ke logika, jika +A dan -B hasilnya tetap -Pedofil. True And False = False. 1 And 0 = 0. Ngerti tidak? Jangan-jangan bingung … 😀
Masa belum membuktikan seluruh syarat terpenuhi anda berani menyimpulkan Nabi kami pedofil dan gila. Wah … gak intelek banget, xixixixixi
August 13, 2011 at 10:20 am
Apa bukti bahwa Aisyah belum puber saat digauli Nabi? Saya belum menemukan dalam literatur bahwa seseorang itu disebut pedofil hanya karena menikahi anak di bawah umur. Jangan nambah-nambahin keterangan yang gak ada donk, ah kebiasaan ahli kitab kok dibawa-bawa. Kalau memang ada, coba tunjukan literaturnya. Apa menikah sama dengan melakukan aktivitas seksual? Menikah itu ijab qabul, melakukan aktivitas seksual itu ya berkawin atau digauli. Belajar lagi …. Kok kebanyakan Kristian yang komentar di sini kayak kurang pengetahuan ya 😀
August 13, 2011 at 12:10 pm
wah ini seperti kasusnya atar, kayaknya percuma saja sdr someone memberi penjelas
August 13, 2011 at 8:53 pm
kan udah saya bilang, seseorang yang melakukan satu kali saja tindakan phedofilia, tetap saja bisa disebut phedofilia.
aisyah masih main boneka ketika nabi ngesex dengannya. aisyah juga masih main ayunan, ada hadist sohehnya,saya malas copas hadistnya.itu menunjukkan jiwanya yang masih anak anak.
August 14, 2011 at 7:28 am
Apa menikahi (melakukan serah terima) anak di bawah umur saja sudah cukup dianggap sebagai pedofil? Coba tunjukan pendapat ahli yang mendukung anda! Sangat jelas disebutkan dalam Statistik Manual Gangguan Mental Edisi ke-4 Edisi Revisi (DSM-IV-TR), karakeristik pedofilia adalah melakukan aktivitas seksual dengan wanita yang belum puber. Apakah ada hadits yang menyatakan bahwa Aisyah saat beusia 9 tahun sudah puber? Kalau wanita disebut belum puber hanya karena masih memainkan boneka atau main ayunan sih terlalu menyederhanakan masalah. Banyak kok perempuan yang sudah puber masih suka memainkan boneka barby, dan banyak juga yang masih suka main ayunan, hehehehe. Jika wikipedia menunjukan masa awal puber adalah 8 tahun dan observasi imam syafii menunjukan wanita 9 tahun sudah puber, maka pantas saja wanita berusia 8 atau 9 tahun yang sudah puber masih memiliki kebiasaan-kebiasaan anak kecil seperti main boneka atau ayunan. Kalau tidak ada hadits yang dengan jelas mengatakan Aisyah belum puber atau belum haidh saat digauli, kenapa anda memilih untuk menduga Aisyah belum puber bukannya menduga Aisyah sudah puber berdasarkan wikipedia atau hasil obeservasi Imam Syafi’i ?
Ayo, ketahuan dengkinya … cuma milih kemungkinan yang bisa mendeskriditkan Nabi kami tanpa mau melihat banyak fakta lain yang menunjukan bahwa beliau bukan pedofil, seperti keumuman istrinya janda, dan kemampuannya menunda hidup serumah dengan Aisyah hingga 2 tahun lamanya.
Atau apakah orang-orang yang ada penyakit dalam hatinya mengira bahwa Allah tidak akan menampakkan kedengkian mereka ? Dan kalau Kami kehendaki, niscaya Kami tunjukkan mereka kepadamu sehingga kamu benar-benar dapat mengenal mereka dengan tanda-tandanya. Dan kamu benar-benar akan mengenal mereka dari kiasan-kiasan perkataan mereka dan Allah mengetahui perbuatan-perbuatan kamu.
August 14, 2011 at 7:41 am
wah berarti sekali tuhan sampeyan terkutuk, selamanya terkutuk gitu ya
August 14, 2011 at 6:57 am
di copas dari atas:
Nikah (47) : 87
حَدَّثَنَا قَبِيصَةُ بْنُ عُقْبَةَ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ عَنْ عُرْوَةَ تَزَوَّجَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَائِشَةَ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ وَمَكَثَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعًا
47.87/4761. Telah menceritakan kepada kami Qabishah bin Utbah Telah menceritakan kepada kami Sufyan dari Hisyam bin Urwah dari Urwah bahwasnya; Nabi shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam menikahi Aisyah saat ia berumur enam tahun, kemudian beliau hidup bersama dengannya (menggaulinya) saat berumur sembilan tahun. Dan Aisyah hidup bersama Rasulullah shallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam juga selama sembilan tahun.
Kalo ilham onani bilang ini tidak pasti karna banya canggahan, itu berarti produk momed itu juga tidak pasti karna sudah sedemikian jelasnya DITULISKAN bahwa aisyah nikah umur 6 tahun dan dientot umur 9 tahun dan seterusnya dientot selama 9 tahun dan itulah pedophile. Kok momed yang nabi itu mau melakukan pedophile sedangkan nabi-nabi lain tidak? Karna dia adalah keturunan bangsa barbar arab yang sudah biasa melakukan pedophile secara primitif dan barbar. Selama anda berada dalam dalam pengaruh ajaran dan ideologi primitif dan bangsa arab barbar produk momed, anda Harus mencari alasan rasional untuk membela ajaran dan ideologi bangsa asing arab barbar primitif yang dengan biadap memancung tkw indonesia. Termasuk juga ajaran teroris bawa bom dikepala untuk bom bunuh diri harus anda bela demi ideologi bangsa arab biadap dan mengorbankan ajaran dan ideologi bangsa indonesia yang jauh lebih bermartabat yang tahu bahwa ngentot anak sembilan tahun adalah priomitif biadap dan pedophile yang menindas anak-anaka indonesia untuk menikmati masa kecilnya dengan boneka tanpa dientot bandot momed dengan ideologi primitif bangsa arabnya.Tinggalkan ajaran dan ideologi primitif bangsa arab yang biadap yang telah pancung kepala tkw indonesia agar anda terhindar dari tindaklan primitif dan biadap untuk bela ajaran dan ideologi bangsa arab asing biadap.
August 14, 2011 at 7:33 am
sdri anti
wah kan sudah dari awal dibilang to neng hadish riwayat hisyam ketika sudah tua diragukan. semua hadis yang menyatakan aisyah menikah diusia 6 tahun pasti ujung pangkalnya ke Hisyam bin urwah. silahkan dibuktikan
August 14, 2011 at 7:35 am
Coba sebutkan perkataan ahli yang mendukung perkataan anda bahwa ciri pedofil adalah melakukan aktivitas seksual dengan wanita yang berusia 9 tahun?. Jangan pake definisi sendiri donk. Kalau cuma pake definisi sendiri, saya bisa bilang anda itu pedofil karena nuduh orang pedofil tanpa bukti …. Wah, para pendengki itu moral dan intelektualnya parah semua, hahahaha. Kalau begini terus, bakalan banyak yang masuk Islam nih ….
August 14, 2011 at 10:12 am
Yesus itu ibunya Maria kan? Lah Maria itu malah dinikahi oleh Yusuf saat berusia anak-anak. Anda menistakan Nabi kami dan leluhurnya hanya karena pernah menikahi anak di bawah umur, itu sih sama saja dengan menistakan Yesus karena ibunya sendiri dinikahi saat masih di bawah umur, hehehehe …. Anda maki-maki orang soleh yang menikahi anak dibawah umur. Anda bilang, “Hai Yusuf, elo biadab, hai ayahnya Maria, elo biadab, hai Yesus, elo turunan keluarga biadab dan primitif, hai Muhammad elo biadab, hai ayahnya Aisyah, elo biadab.” Naudzubillah, tsumma naudzubillahi mindzalik, innalillahi wa inna ilaihi rajiuun …. Sungguh biadab dan primitif cara berfikir orang seperti anda ini.
August 13, 2011 at 5:30 am
AGAMA ADALAH AKAL TIDAK ADA AGAMA BAGI YANG TIDAK BERAKAL RASULULLAH BERSABDA.
KRISTEN KHATOL MENYEMBAH MANUSIA YANG MAKAN, MINUM, BERAK LALU MENJADIKAN YESUS SEBAGAI TUHAN. INI LEBIH TIDAK MASUK AKAL.HANYA ORANG BODOH BISA MENERIMA INI.SEHINGGA API NERAKA LAYAK UNTUK MEMBAKAR SI BODOH INI.
August 14, 2011 at 4:12 am
lebih baik nyembah yesus,bahkan masih lebih baik nyembah batu daripada nyembah nabi phedofil,
nabi kok ngesex ama bocah 9 tahun……
otak pemberiaan tuhan tolong dipakai mas…
================================================
kafir sekaliaan,jangan terkecoh dengan permainan bahasa dan difinisi
phedofilia.
INGAT FAKTANYA SAJA: muhamad ngesex dengan bocah perempuan usia 9 tahun., jangan terkecoh dengan apapun cara muslim mendifinisikan phedofilia.
muslim sengaja memelintir difinisi phedofilia,untuk membingungkan kafir,dan terutama untuk menyelamatkan harga diri dan muka nabi mereka.
August 14, 2011 at 7:29 am
Bener-bener persis seperti yang dikatakan pendeta Nathan, ciri kalian adalah cacat moral. Bagaimana bisa anda menuduh seorang nabi itu pedofil tanpa bisa menunjukan perkataan ahli yang mendukung pendapatnya?
Melayangkan tuduhan semacam itu gak perlu “pake otak”. Orang gak “pake otak” menyuruh orang menggunakan otak sama saja gak punya otak. Hehehehe
Setelah dirinya terdesak tidak bisa menunjukan perkataan ahli yang mendukung pendapatnya, diapun menyeru kepada orang kafir untuk juga tidak “pake otak”, menuduh kami melakukan permainan bahasa dan memplintir definisi pedofil tanpa menunjukan buktinya. Kalau saya orang kafir yang diserunya, saya merinding diajakin jadi orang yang cacat moral dan intelektual seperti itu, hahahaha.
Kenapa saya bilang anda cacat intelektual? Lihat perkataan anda, “jangan terkecoh dengan apapun cara muslim mendifinisikan phedofilia.”. Apa iya saya mendefinisikan pedofili? Apa gak baca, saya menyatakan ciri dan pedofilinya DSM-IV-TR dan Krafft-Ebing.
Kalau kami berargumentasi dengan bersandarkan pendapat ahli dengan tanpa merubah satu kata merekapun berusaha menyelamatkan harga diri dan muka Nabi kami, maka anda menuduh dengan tanpa bersandar kepada pendapat ahli dan sering berbicara tanpa fakta berusaha menyelamatkan harga diri dan muka anda sendiri. Tidak malukah anda wahai saudaraku?
August 19, 2011 at 5:11 am
http://www.suaramedia.com/berita-dunia/eropa/18494-jerman-tuduh-vatikan-tutupi-kebusukan-skandal-gereja.html
August 25, 2011 at 7:40 am
berakhlaq Says:
August 14, 2011 at 4:12 am
lebih baik nyembah yesus,bahkan masih lebih baik nyembah batu daripada nyembah nabi phedofil,
nabi kok ngesex ama bocah 9 tahun……
otak pemberiaan tuhan tolong dipakai mas…
he he he TERNYATA ANDA BODOH JUGA NYEMBAH JESUS.
MAKHLUK NYEMBAH MAKHLUK.XI XI XI TONGOL KAGAK PANDAI PANDAI.
KALO JESUS DISURUH MAKAN SAMA MURIDNYA.
“AYO DONG MAS JESUS MAKAN NI KACANG GORENG!”.JESUS BILANG “OGAH AH SAYA LAGI SAKIT GIGI”.NGGA ENAK LIUR.
NAH .. JESUS SEBAGAI TUHAN UNTUK MAKAN MASIH BERHAJAT PADA GIGI DAN MASIH BERHAJAT PADA LIURNYA.
DASAR KEBLINGER MAKHLUK KOK DISEMBAH.JESUS BILANG KAMU NI BODOH AMAT AKU KOK DISEMBAH.SEMBAH DONG YANG AKU SEMBAH.BACA KITAB TUUUUH!!!!! ALLAH.YANG DISEMBAH JANGAN SEMBAH AKU BEGO..
SAKING KESALNYA JESUS AKHIR ZAMAN BAKAL NYEMBELIH KRISTEN KHATOL YANG MENJADIKANNYA TUHAN.
MENGENAI NABI MUHAMMAD.ALLAH TELAH MEMUJINYA.ITU SUDAH JELAS DI QURAN.PAKE ITU SAJA..
KALO CERITA, TAFSIR ATAU HADIS SAHIIH HE HE HE KAGAK JAMIN DAH APALAGI CETAKAN KELUARAN YAHUDI.NASRANI…NGAPAIN DIIKUTI.
CUKUP PEGANGAN KITA AL QURAN.
SESUNGGUHNYA AKHLAQ NABI SANGAT MULIA.
UCAPKANLAH LAILAHAILLALLAH.MAKA ANDA AKAN SELAMAT.
September 2, 2011 at 5:30 pm
http://trulyislam.blogspot.com/2009/01/yesus-dan-trinitas-tritunggal.html
June 5, 2012 at 10:08 am
Muhamad nabi GILA.
Lebih gila lagi yang menganggap muhamad NABI.
June 5, 2012 at 3:38 pm
he he he he …tuhan yesus nya kelainan sex
sok-sok ngaku suci,,,,
tak tau nya ,,,, yesus nya pernah polygami…
Tuhan apa yang pernah kawin….
kruuuk kruuuk kruuuk
July 16, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Wahai Saudaraku Kaum Muslimin, sebaiknya dan lbh baik forum kristenisasi spt ini tdk usah ditanggapi krn yg nulis dan juga yg beri komentar dari mereka adalah bukan kristen yg taat dan mreka bukan org berpendidikan apalagi ilmu mereka ttg kristen sangat dangkal. Isi otak dan hati mereka hanyalah syeitan penggoda, berjiwa iblis dan berhati batu. Bagi Muslim yg penting adalah mari kita tingkatkan ibadah kita sesuai ajaran Rasulullah SAW dan iman kita jgn sampai goyah dan tergoda dgn kehidupan di dunia yg hanya sementara saja. Biarkan mrk menghina Islam krn mrk mmg tdk tahu apa Islam itu sebenarnya, agama mereka kisten saja ajarannya mrk tdk tahu apalagi ngerti ttg Islam. Untuk org2 Kristen dan Kafir serta kaum murtadin yg terlibat di forum ini (jgn panggil dgn kata2 “Saudaraku” krn mrk bukan seiman dgn kita) ketahuilah bahwa Agamku adalah Agamaku dan Agamamu adalah Agamamu, jd gak usah ngurusin apa2 yg ada dlm Islam. Mereka juga beraninya hanya lempar batu sembunyi tangan alias bermain di alam Maya, krn mrk org2 pengecut dan tdk punya pengetahuan. Terakhir bg kalian yg mengaku Kristen, tolong jawab pertanyaan saya bila kalian benar2 mengaku pengikut kristus:
1. Dimana dan abad keberapa pertama kali Gereja Kristen dibangun dan digunakan sbg tempat beribadah kaum Kristen ?
2. Bagi Islam Yesus bukan Isa, tp org yg ngejar Isa dirubah Tuhan wajah dan wujudnya spt Isa shg dikira Isa lalu disalib, sdgkan Isa diangkat Allah ke Langit dan diakhir zaman akan turun memberantas salib. Nah, apakah Yesus itu Tuhan? kalau dia Tuhan kok bisa mati disalib dan kok pakai kolor tanpa baju ? Apa iya bentuk Tuhan yg diagungkan cuma spt itu, hanya manusia biasa yg gak punya kekuatan apapun ? Smg kalian bisa menjawab dgn kejujuran hati nurani dan bukan dgn kebohongan. Terima kasih.
May 24, 2014 at 5:35 pm
[…] Siap Murtad […]
November 10, 2016 at 11:59 pm
To all.
Mari kita renungkan tentang pernikahan aisyah dan Muhammad itu wajar apa tidak !!!.. Muhammad hanya menjual bahwa dia NABI dan SAUDARA DALAM ISLAM, jadi wajar bila dia menikahi aisyah yang MASIH 9 tahun yg awal dipinang umur 6 tahun. begitu ayat quran dan hadish tidak boleh diutak atik.
Sekarang untuk menghilangkan fildofil Muhammad lalu dilakukan banyak cara oleh muslim dan ulama. pada usia 6 tahun anak wanita rata-rata belum mentruasi. kalau 9 tahun ada anak wanita yang sudah men, nah aisyah termasuk sudah men artinya syah dikawini oleh muhammad. tetapi tetap tidak menghilangkan fildiofilnya apapun alasannya. dengan alasan tidak boleh bertanya, so Nabi berkata DIA (aisyah) itu IBUMU dalam Islam jadi clear.
begitulah cara yang paling jitu yg dilakukan oleh muslim dan ulama untuk membela kepentingan muhammad dan Islam. karena muslim dan ulama melarang keras orang lain berpendapat berbeda dari apa pendapat yang sudah dibangun ulama dan muslim melalui tafsir dan fatwa. pendapat (fatwa) ulama itu kedudukannya lebih tinggi dari quran dan hadist itu sendiri, diluar itu dianggap salah dan tidak berkompeten/berhak jadi kebenaran ulama dan muslim dianggap mutlak. orang lain diluar dianggap tidak tau dan tidak ngerti apa-apa. karena apabila pendapat orang diluar islam dianggap benar maka rusaklah dan runtuhlah otoritas quran dan hadish itulah kenyataan yang dihadapi oleh muslim dan ulama.
November 11, 2016 at 1:12 am
TO : MUSLIMS
MENURUT QURAN, MUHAMMAD BUKAN NABI
ORANG ARAB NGGAK BISA JADI NABI MENURUT QURAN.
SURAH AL-‘ANKABUT 27 (QS.29:27)
Dan Kami anugrahkan kepda Ibrahim, Ishak dan Ya’qub (NGGAK PAKE ISMAEL), dan Kami jadikan KENABIAN dan Al Kitab pada KETURUNANNYA, dan Kami berikan kepadanya balasannya di dunia; dan sesungguhnya dia di akhirat, benar-benar termasuk orang-orang yang saleh.
SURAH AL-JATHIYAH 16 (QS. 45:16)
Dan sesungguhnya telah Kami berikan kepada Bani ISRAIL Al Kitab (Taurat), kekuasaan dan KENABIAN dan Kami berikan kepada mereka rezeki-rezeki yang baik dan Kami LEBIHKAN mereka atas bangsa-bangsa (pada masanya)
GAMBAR : ORANG ARAB, NGGAK MUNGKIN JADI NABI (MENURUT QURAN LHO)

Sama juga dengan Alkitab, : Mazmur 147:19-20
19) Ia memberitakan FirmanNya kepada Yakub, Ketetapan-Ketetapan-Nya dan Hukum-Hukum-Nya epada Israel (bukan Arab)
20) Ia tidak berbuat demikian kepada segala bangsa, dan hokum-hukum-Nya tidak mereka kenal, Haleluyah !!
MUHAMMAD BUKAN NABI, MENURUT QURAN LHO, (BUKAN AKU UYANG NGOMONG)
MIKIR…, JANGAN MAU DIBOHONGI ARAB.
November 11, 2016 at 1:13 am
TO : MUSLIMS,
MENURUT QURAN…., YESUS ITU ADALAH ALLAH !!!
NGGAK PERCAYA ?? COBA BACA QS. 31:34 DAN QS. 43:61
Dalam Qs. 31:34 HANYA ALLAH YANG MENGETAHUI HARI KIAMAT !!
Surah Luqman 34 (Qs. 31:34)
Sesungguhnya Allah, hanya pada sisi-Nya sajalah pengetahuan tentang Hari Kiamat; dan Dialah Yang menurunkan hujan, dan ……MENGEAHUI APA YANG ADA DALAM RAHIM…….. Dan tiada seorangpun yang dapat mengetahui (dengan pasti) apa yang akan diusahakannya besok……. Dan tiada seorangpun yang dapat mengetahui di bumi mana dia akan mati. Sesungguhnya Allah Maha Mengetahui lagi Maha Mengenal.
Dipihak lain…, Quran berkata…, bahwa ISA JUGA MENGETAHUI HARI KIAMAT
Surah Al-Zukhruf QS. 43:61 …..”Dan sesungguhnya ISA itu benar-benar memberikan PENGETAHUAN TENTANG HARI KIAMAT. Karena itu janganlah kamu ragu-ragu tentang kiamat itu dan IKUTLAH AKU. INILAH JALAN YANG LURUS.”
GAMBAR : YESUS ADALAH ALLAH
JADI…., ISA ADALAH ALLAH, ROH ALLAH (QS. 21:91) , DAN KALIMAT ALLAH (QS. 4:171).
November 11, 2016 at 1:14 am
TO : ALL
Kalo dalam Quran…, Awloh itu “Dzat” Tunggal….., nggak dijelasin Dzat apaan, karena BATU JUGA DZAT, TUNGGAL, YANG ADA HANYALAH WUJUD, BATU HAJAR ASWAD.
Sebaliknya dalam Kristen…, ALLAH ITU SEGAMBAR DENGAN MANUSIA., MEMILIKI TRITUNGGAL, TUBUH, JIWA DAN ROH.
ALLAH TRITUNGGAL – ALLAH BAPA, ALLAH PUTRA (FIRMAN) DAN ALLAH ROH KUDUS.
Kejadian 1:26-27
(26) Berfirmanlah Allah: “Baiklah Kita menjadikan manusia menurut gambar dan rupa Kita, supaya mereka berkuasa atas ikan-ikan di laut dan burung-burung di udara dan atas ternak dan atas seluruh bumi dan atas segala binatang melata yang merayap di bumi.”
(27) Maka Allah menciptakan manusia itu menurut gambar-Nya, menurut gambar Allah diciptakan-Nya dia; laki-laki dan perempuan diciptakan-Nya mereka.
ALLAH MENCIPTAKAN MANUSIA, SEGAMBAR DENGAN RUPANYA
– Mengapa manusia disebut machluk ciptaan termulia di dunia ???
Karena manusia diciptakan SEGAMBAR DENGAN RUPA ALLAH.
Apanya yang segambar …..? TAUHIDNYA.
Seorang manusia juga memliki Tauhid yang sama dengan Allah, memiliki JIWA, TUBUH DAN ROH.
Jadi…., manusia juga disebut ESA TRITUNGGAL/
KE-TAUHID-AN :
Batu dan benda mati memiliki TAUHID – ESA.TUNGGAL, SAMA DENGAN TAUHID AWLOH SWT. BATU HAJAR ASWAD
Binatang memiliki Tauhid Dwi Tunggal, TUBUH DAN ROH
Manusia, memiliki Tauhid TRITUNGGAL, JIWA, TUBUH DAN ROH
Allah karena menicptakan manusia segambar dengan Rupanya,, memlliki Tauhid yang sama TRITUNGGAL, ALLAH BAPA, ALLAH PUTRA (FIRMAN) DAN ALLAH ROHKUDUS.
KESIMPULAN:
Jangan menyembah Awloh swt dengan Tauhidnya, Dzat,, ESA-TUNGGAL,atau batu Hajar Aswad
November 11, 2016 at 1:16 am
TO : MUSLIMS,
QURAN & PERTENTANGAN (10)
——– SIAPA “SI KAMI” (TAUHID) DALAM QURAN ?? ——
Unti iman Islamadalah KETAUHIDAN ALLAH, ALLAH ITU ESA/TUNGGAL…..,
TETAPI……..
COBA LIHAT AYAT-AYAT DI QURAN…, AWLOH SWT MENYEBUTKAN DIRINYA DENGAN “SI KAMI” (JAMAK), SEBAGAI CONTOH :
Dalam…..
SURAH AL HIJR Qs. 15:9 “ Sesungguhnya Kami-lah yang menurunkan Al Qur’an, dan sesungguhnya Kami benar-benar memeliharanya. [793]. “
SURAH AL-AHZAB 37
……… Maka tatkala Zaid telah mengakhiri keperluan terhadap istrinya (menceraikannya), Kami kawinkan kamu dengan dia supaya tidak ada keberatan bagi orang mukmin untuk (mengawini) isteri-isteri anak-anak angkat mereka, apabila anak-anak angkat itu telah menyelesaikan keperluannya daripada isterinya. Dan adalah ketetapan Allah itu pasti terjadi.
Dll…..,
GAMBAR : HAJAR ASWAD, ESA/TUNGGAL, HANYA WUJUD

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KESIMPULAN :
1) ALLAH ITU PENCIPTA…, DAN TIDAK BISA DISAMAKAN DENGAN YANG DICIPTA (MALAIKAT, MUHAMMAD DLL)
2) Dalam surat Al-Ahzab 37, Awloh swt, SI KAMI…, nengawinkan Muhammad dengan Zaenb, jadi tidak mungkin si Kami itu bersama Muhammad.
3) Kemungkinan lain adalah Si Kami itu, Al Uzza, Manat dan…., Dewa Berhala Arab
4) Kalo Awloh itu Tunggal…, BATU ADALAH TUNGGAL, BATU HAJAR ASWAD, KARENA HANYA MEMILIKI WUJUD, TIDAK ADA ROH DAN JIWA.
5) QURAN KITAB ABAL-ABAL